Manifesting during Heartbreak with Dorothy Johnson

Ep. 137 // Manifesting during Heartbreak with Dorothy Johnson

[00:00:00] ​

[00:00:05] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Welcome back to the podcast everyone. I’m so excited to have you here and I have a super special guest with me

[00:00:14] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: me

[00:00:14] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: that I cannot wait to talk to. Oh my gosh. So I have breakup Coach Dorothy here, who has been on the podcast before, but we’re actually talking about this time, last time we talked about manifestation and all that fun stuff.

[00:00:30] So you can definitely go back and watch that episode. But this one we’re gonna talk about Dorothy’s absolute. Gift, her specialty, her zone of genius, which is breakup and how to get over your ex in three months or less. That is Dorothy’s zone of genius, and she’s been doing this for many years and it’s amazing to witness, you know, her business and we’ve both

[00:00:58] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: really

[00:00:58] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: this journey together and just seeing the impact that she has had on the world.

[00:01:03] Through this work, so I really wanted to bring her on to talk about this because I know a lot of you are going through breakups, whether that is a breakup with a partner, a breakup with a friendship or breakup in business, there’s many different definitions of breakups and it can be extremely jarring and extremely hard.

[00:01:27] When you are an entrepreneur and you’re running a business and you’re going through this deep.

[00:01:33] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: this deep,

[00:01:33] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Deep thing. And so that’s why I wanted to talk to you, Dorothy, because I would love to support our listeners in how do we do this? Can we do both? Can we still run this business? Can we still thrive? Can we still manifest?

[00:01:48] Can we still make money while going through this super heavy thing? So welcome Dorothy.

[00:01:55] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I’m so excited to be here. Thank you so much, Jamie. I love you so much and I’m just grateful to be here and be with your listeners. The people you have around in your world are just magnetic and amazing, awesome human beings. So thank you so much for having me. I am very pumped to have this conversation.

[00:02:15] Yes,

[00:02:16] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: So good. And you’ve lived through this, right? You’ve manifested and you help people really get to the other side of breakups where they live their bigger and better life. So I think it’s gonna be such an important topic because. Everyone in the world goes through breakups in many different ways. So how would you define breakup or heartbreak from an emotional or energetic perspective?

[00:02:40] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Yeah, no, I love it. So I really think heartbreak

[00:02:43] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Um.

[00:02:44] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: comes down to it, is someone who had an expectation and that expectation didn’t match what actually happened in reality. Um, and the disappointment, and the loss and the sadness, and maybe even discouragement that surrounds that experience. So like thinking, you know, one thing, something else completely happening and then. discouragement and loss and sadness about the gap. Does that

[00:03:12] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Hmm, totally. So what would you say actually breaks during heartbreak? Like is it their identity? Is it expectations? Is it nervous system safety? Maybe it’s all of the above, but

[00:03:24] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: a little

[00:03:25] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: yeah.

[00:03:25] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: it.

[00:03:26] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:26] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: It’s a

[00:03:27] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:27] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: of it. I think one of the biggest things, when I am talking to my clients who are typically going through heartbreak romantically, a lot of times it’s, um, all of it, they’re, it’s like the nervous system obviously is a disaster immediately after when. People were left they’re blindsided. The majority of people I’m talking to and helping are people who were blindsided. They were left, and that can be debilitating because. Think about it. When you’re in relationship, you have all these thoughts about the relationship, and they might not be the same thoughts that your partner were having. And so it’s very jarring if your partner hadn’t even described those things to you, and you are realizing that the thoughts that you were having was not the experience that the other person was also having.

[00:04:18] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:04:19] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: so that can be very debilitating. Your emotional experience can be all consuming completely debilitating.

[00:04:25] So you’ve got the nervous system piece, but also I think what’s really, um, one of the bigger pieces is your identity. The life that you thought you were living, the life you thought you were going to live, and having to restructure that and reorganize it. Um, but I also think that’s a part of like the gift as

[00:04:46] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Hmm.

[00:04:48] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I always say that heartbreak is. The universe’s way of reordering and reorganizing a life when you won’t let it. I think a lot of times we like know a relationship is coming to a completion. We realize it’s not the most aligning fit, or we’re like, realize we’re like settling, like they have almost everything but just this one thing is missing and I feel like. us holding on. And I, I kind of like love this though about the universe is the universe won’t let us have something that’s not meant to be in the first place.

[00:05:24] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Mmm.

[00:05:25] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: so when heartbreak happens, um, romantically or otherwise, I think it’s the universe’s way of saying, I’m gonna reorder and reshuffle your life because you’re not doing it. And it can be like a mass level reorganizing, but that also means like. There’s so much transformation and heartbreak. There’s so much like room for growth. It’s like a clean slate, which I know can be intimidating, but a lot of times there’s just so much opportunity and like things to gain in that experience.

[00:06:00] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah, so true. And when you’re in it, it, like you said, it’s just your nervous system is a wreck. It’s in shambles. It feels very heavy and very deep and dark at times. So I’m curious what your perspective is on this around people who. You know, are maybe on the trajectory of growth in another area of their life.

[00:06:23] Like let’s say for our listeners, it’s usually around business or manifesting money or growth in that area, and really feeling a sole desire for that. And then this breakup happens. And all of a sudden their emotional state is just tanked. Do you think that’s a time to slow down and just care for self?

[00:06:43] Do you think you can do both or is it kind of a nuanced answer? What are your thoughts about that?

[00:06:50] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: so my honest opinion is that’s the time to like double down,

[00:06:54] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Hmm.

[00:06:55] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: and that doesn’t mean your nervous system. That doesn’t mean like override the emotional experience that you’re having or pushing it away, or not acknowledging the fact that you’re going through deep loss and grief.

[00:07:11] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:07:11] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: you have to acknowledge all of those emotions.

[00:07:13] And we talk about something inside of my program called Biology Baseline, and so you do have to address that biology baseline and the nervous system work. However, times of deep heartbreak also bring about epic comebacks. It’s a requirement, like this is the moment to have an epic comeback, and that comeback is gonna be holistic.

[00:07:36] It’s not just in that one area where the heartbreak happened. It’s like a complete upleveling of your life to create and become the version of yourself that holds the outcome that you desire. So a lot of

[00:07:48] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Hmm.

[00:07:48] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: for my part, for my people, right, they’re like, I want a husband. I thought he was gonna be my husband.

[00:07:53] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:07:54] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Um. We have to become the person who has a husband and by. Upleveling, all these other areas of your life, which might be business, it might make you, it, it kind of like helps you collapse timelines because are creating like a new obsession. You’re creating something new that you’re excited about and, and that portion of your life might need to be fulfilled or complete or at a different level before you become the version of yourself who holds a husband? give you an example of this, Jamie, because

[00:08:26] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: you.

[00:08:27] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: you helped me with this a lot. So Jamie, I’ll have to say this. Jamie is like the coach who believed in me when I lost all of my belief. Like, I don’t think you understand, Jamie. I will tell you this over and over and over again, I was like at my lowest of low after going through a very traumatic, um, miscarriage. And I remember coming to Jamie and I’m like, I just do not feel motivated in my business at all. Like all I want is a baby. And we really had to work at that attachment that I had towards manifesting a child. There was a deep level of attachment to that thing, and it was like ripped away from me, or it felt ripped away from me.

[00:09:12] Right. But again, going back to what we were just saying, like it was the universe’s way of reordering, reorganizing my life so that I could become the mother that I needed to become before manifesting the thing that I needed to manifest or wanted to manifest. So. I had to do a lot of work on releasing attachment around having children, and you and I worked very much in depth with that to be able to manifest it, but I also had to continue the other areas of my life.

[00:09:40] I had to continue my romantic area of my life. I had to continue the business area of my life and learning to uplevel those things to also hold a child. Which I didn’t realize I was doing in that moment. Like when I was going throughout that experience, I didn’t realize that that’s what I was doing, but I was creating a business that now sustains my life as a mother to a toddler.

[00:10:04] And if I wouldn’t have done that work, if I wouldn’t have gone through that ultimate like heartbreak and I didn’t go through the work of continuing to go after and creating the life that I deeply desire that is bigger and better than the one that I had in the past. I wouldn’t have become the version of myself who created that sustainable business, which then also made me a sustainable mother.

[00:10:26] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:10:27] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: The dots connecting. Does

[00:10:28] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Totally a hundred percent. And I think when you’re in the middle of it, it’s so hard to see that that’s what’s happening, or to believe that that’s what’s happening, or that anything good can come from this. Horrible thing that’s happened, whatever it is. Right.

[00:10:43] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:44] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: So what kept you going? You know, and I remember this time the motivation was tanked naturally because when we’re going through something really deep or really traumatic or the dark night of the soul, it is hard to find motivation.

[00:11:00] So what did you lean into, or what do you recommend for your clients lean into when it feels like it’s all. Consuming and it’s all dark most of the time. You know, like maybe it’s 10% light, right?

[00:11:11] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: It needs to be subtle. It we

[00:11:14] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:11:15] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: it’s not gonna feel motivating and sometimes it doesn’t even feel inspiring like

[00:11:20] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:11:20] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: it. Right? But it had to be subtle, subtle shifts, and I took it like 1% at a time.

[00:11:27] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:11:27] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: really required me to become a master at emotional clearing, a master at experiencing emotion and like transmuting it, allowing it, of the stuff that I’m like, ew.

[00:11:39] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:11:40] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Yuck

[00:11:41] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Not fun lessons to learn when you’re in the middle of it, but like life changing.

[00:11:45] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: love that for me.

[00:11:46] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:11:46] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: but yeah, but it is life changing work. I

[00:11:50] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:11:51] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: that, I think that’s the power of having a coach, right? Like I couldn’t have done that without Jamie by my side, like helping me with each like little micro moment of that experience of being like, Hey, I still believe in millionaire Mama.

[00:12:06] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:12:06] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I feel like, I don’t know how many times you told me that, but every time I spoke to her, she was there reminding me that I believe in millionaire mama and I will believe in it until

[00:12:16] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:12:17] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: And I think it just allowed me breathing room to like hold space for the fact that I didn’t believe in it.

[00:12:24] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:12:24] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: it was okay because someone else was carrying that.

[00:12:27] Right?

[00:12:27] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:12:28] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I definitely think hire a coach if you’re not already working with a coach.

[00:12:32] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:12:32] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: secondly, I think also zooming out and looking at the whole picture of like, how is my life fulfilling in so many different ways? I really, that felt like a huge story for me in that experience of the miscarriage of being like, oh my gosh. Isn’t being a mother like the most fulfilling thing that you could do in life? And if it’s not, what is? And I really had to address those questions and I had to explore this whole topic and this, so this whole area with a lot of curiosity and a lot of compassion, like, why did I want kids? And I was finding all these reasons and all of them were pretty selfish.

[00:13:08] And that’s not wrong or bad, but it was just interesting to find. Um, I started exploring like, you know, what would happen if my life. If I never had kids and really exploring like how was my life better if I never had kids? And, um, how, what were the experiences that I felt like I was missing out on by not having kids and how do I go out and create those things?

[00:13:30] So it was really getting curious and compassionate in that experience as answering some like really tough questions and then finding answers to those questions that truly were authentic to me. And I think. None of that was motivating or inspiring, but I was genuinely curious about

[00:13:54] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:13:54] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: and I think that allowing myself to look at that topic of my life without freaking the fuck out, sorry,

[00:14:02] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:14:03] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: and then still continuing these other areas of my life, knowing that this side would get sorted.

[00:14:11] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:14:11] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: still show up for my people. I can still do my business. I’m still good at my job, which was a whole thing that you also helped me with too, because at the time I was also going through a called off engagement.

[00:14:21] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:14:22] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: and so it was like. Realizing that I’m still a good coach, even if I’m experiencing heartbreak and

[00:14:28] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:14:29] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: loss, and I believe that about everyone, whether you’re an attorney, whether you like, I believe you are so good at your job, even if you’re going through, I mean, that’s a Taylor Swift song, right?

[00:14:38] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Totally. Yep.

[00:14:39] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: the heartbreak. Right?

[00:14:40] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:14:41] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: we’re all really, really good at our jobs.

[00:14:44] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:14:45] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: still be good at your job, even when you’re experiencing heartbreak. And one of the best ways to heal, heartbreak, and to help yourself feel better in heartbreak is by helping other people.

[00:14:56] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Oh, yes.

[00:14:57] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: what I mean? So

[00:14:58] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:15:00] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I feel like that alone was really helpful and not necessarily motivating, but it did

[00:15:05] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:15:06] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: in the

[00:15:06] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:15:07] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: like, I get to help one person

[00:15:09] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yes.

[00:15:10] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: who I am today is gonna be enough to help one person.

[00:15:13] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: So true. That is a hundred percent something that I learned from one of my very first coaches that, um, it was Amber Chris and, you know, and then I learned more about it from a manifestation perspective. And it’s that kind of that saying, when the going gets tough, something’s gotta give. And usually that means people think like, oh, I gotta let go of something.

[00:15:33] Yes, it can mean that, but also like. Go give, like when the going gets tough, something’s gotta give, go give because you will receive in that. So that’s honestly whenever I’m in a funk, when I’m in depression, when I’m in some kind of, if I’m in heartbreak, like if you focus on giving, it will do something for you.

[00:15:51] It will fuel you in some way. So I’m also just, ’cause you know, we both are coaches and we love emotions and we love the model and all of that. Um, I’m curious, so. It wasn’t motivation that kept you going because you didn’t have it. And there’s times where, honestly, I think it’s really good whether you’re going through heartbreak or not, but to learn how to keep going when you’re not motivated.

[00:16:15] Because if you’re an entrepreneur there’s gonna be dips in motivation and you may have a whole year where you’re not motivated.

[00:16:20] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Hundred

[00:16:21] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: And so like what did, what emotion, and I know you went into curiosity and you started getting curious, but what do you think the emotions. Were that drove you to get curious or to keep going without motivation?

[00:16:38] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Yeah. I love that question. I don’t know if this is an emotion, but Intrinsic really comes up,

[00:16:44] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Mm. Yeah.

[00:16:48] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: introspective.

[00:16:50] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:16:51] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: It felt centered, calm.

[00:16:54] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:16:55] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I think those were the emotions that I moved into of like, I’m alive, physically safe, and I’m really interested in this area of my life as to like why it rattled me so hard.

[00:17:09] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:17:09] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: because it wasn’t like one of those moments where we’ve all had the moments of chaos in our lives when we didn’t have coaching,

[00:17:17] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:17:17] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: this was a moment of

[00:17:19] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:17:20] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Where I did have coaching, and to me that part was like very like interesting. I was interested where I was just like, this is so interesting that like, I still am breaking, even though I’ve got these tools, the model seems to not be working. am I like? It was just a whole new learning level for

[00:17:41] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah,

[00:17:42] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: not played like in the game of life. I hadn’t played this level yet, like.

[00:17:46] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:47] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: And so it was me. Like if we thought of it as a video game, this is me like running all around on this level and I was getting killed every so often by whatever was on the thing.

[00:17:57] But I kept coming back to that level and like learning more and more about it until I figured out how to unlock to get to the next level. Does that make sense?

[00:18:05] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: A hundred percent so good. Yeah, and I think just to kind of add onto that, ’cause I’m very similar, but one of the things that really helps me when I’m down or going through it or lose, like lacking motivation, going through some kind of heartbreak in some way or another. Is like also a trust in life, kind of like whatever I’m being pulled towards.

[00:18:27] Like it’s kind of like, okay, I’m not motivated, but I’m gonna keep going Any like, it’s just you naturally do it so you can trust in life, like life is unfolding. And just show up. Just show up even if you’re not motivated,

[00:18:39] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I

[00:18:39] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: you feel right that like,

[00:18:41] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: and I

[00:18:42] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: yeah.

[00:18:42] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: up trust because I do, I actually believe that there’s three layers of trust.

[00:18:47] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Okay.

[00:18:47] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: so like the top layer is the layer in something bigger than you, right? Like

[00:18:51] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:18:52] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: in trusting in God or the universe, whatever it is that you believe in.

[00:18:55] And what’s so great about that top layer is like you don’t have to have trust in other people. You don’t have to have trust in yourself, like you can actually like, because I think too, when you’re going through heartbreak, especially romantically, at least lot of my clients are like. What was wrong with me?

[00:19:14] Why? Like they, their self-trust is broken and they feel like they messed up. And I’m like, it’s okay that you can mess up because the universe is gonna course correct you. You’re the universe will

[00:19:25] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:19:26] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: correct you. So I’m never like, we don’t have to be scared if we don’t have self-trust and we’re rebuilding self-trust because I, I promise you, like the universe isn’t gonna like let something happen that’s not supposed to happen,

[00:19:38] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yes, so good, so good. And especially something to just like hold onto when you’re in it. When you’re in the middle of it, and just believing in that and trusting in that. Even if it doesn’t feel like that’s what’s happening, it’s like that is what’s happening, right?

[00:19:53] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: like there was a mistake, like I

[00:19:54] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:19:55] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: not like God made a mistake. It’s not like the

[00:19:58] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:19:58] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: make mis, like there’s no way that this is a mistake,

[00:20:01] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah, yeah,

[00:20:02] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: crazy to believe. Right.

[00:20:04] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: I know a hundred percent yes. So I think it’d be helpful for people to kind of understand or, you know, just to understand the process of moving through heartbreak, if you see it as a process. So do, do you see it as a process and kind of like things and waves that you have to go through?

[00:20:22] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Oh, I mean, yes. I actually,

[00:20:25] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Okay.

[00:20:25] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I, yes and. Remember that I specialize in romantic heartbreak, so I’ll talk about

[00:20:32] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:20:32] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: can generalize it.

[00:20:34] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:20:35] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: romantic heartbreak, so I guess I’ll even back up a little bit further and talk about how they came out with the seven stages of grief, and a lot

[00:20:42] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:43] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: love to like take that and apply it to whatever sort of grief they’re going in.

[00:20:47] I wanna clarify that that is, that was designed for people with terminally ill cancer patients. So it’s a little bit different. So

[00:20:56] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:20:57] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I ended up creating my own heartbreak stages, and there’s four that we move through. Um, so the first heartbreak stage is the, like, I can’t eat, I can’t sleep. I’m completely debilitated by my emotional experience. is like the, you are like immediate from heartbreak and your biology, baseline’s all messed up. Meaning like, you’re not

[00:21:21] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:21:22] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: right. You’re. You’re not eating or you’re overeating, you’re just like completely depressed. Like you might even be in a depressed state speaking

[00:21:31] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:21:32] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Like there’s, those are the, like, that’s where you’re totally like consumed by your emotional experience of the situation. That’s stage one.

[00:21:40] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:21:40] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: have stage two, which I would consider kind of the high functioning avoidant, who, this is someone where they’re like doing the thing. They’re out there, they’re, they’re doing all the things.

[00:21:53] They look like they’re pretty good from the outside, but they’re secret secretly, like still obsessed with their ex,

[00:22:00] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:22:00] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: they’re still consumed by it mentally and emotionally. Like they, they avoid places that might trigger them. They avoid talking about it. They, again, they avoid it at any and all costs because they get triggered easily and they still have like a high desire for their ex, a high attachment to their ex. The third stage, I would say is like the free from your ex stage. So this is where you’re no longer like faking it. You’ve truly decreased the, the attachment and the desire for that person, and you’re free. Like you’re not worried about emotional triggers. You could co-parent, you can co-work, you can like have mutual friend groups with your ex.

[00:22:41] You literally have zero desire for that person, and you have. You know, zero attachment to them being in your life. This is a

[00:22:47] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:22:47] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: stage. This is like

[00:22:48] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:22:49] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: But the stage beyond that, I would say is like your comeback era. This is the part where you have made like your present and your future so much more interesting than your past, that you’ve just created this like delicious, amazing, epic comeback that no one. Can look away from, you know what I mean? Just

[00:23:10] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yes.

[00:23:12] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: lit the fuck up,

[00:23:13] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:23:14] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Just your most authentic, true self. You’re like manifesting everything into reality. It’s just like the most gorgeous, beautiful place to be in. You’re unattached to anything and everything, and you just feel like you rule the world.

[00:23:28] You know what I mean?

[00:23:29] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yes.

[00:23:31] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: So

[00:23:31] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: I love it.

[00:23:32] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: the process. That’s

[00:23:33] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:23:33] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: are the stages that you move through. The majority of that requires you to release attachment to your ex. Now we could generalize that, right? So it’s like same kind of steps and stages that I went through with my miscarriage and

[00:23:47] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:23:47] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: attachment and desire for kids and allowing that

[00:23:51] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:23:51] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: completely released.

[00:23:52] And as soon as I released that, then voila, I got pregnant.

[00:23:56] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep. Month later.

[00:23:58] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: It’s crazy. Do you

[00:24:00] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yes.

[00:24:00] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I remember being at your retreat in January. It was in

[00:24:03] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:24:04] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: right?

[00:24:05] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: It was,

[00:24:06] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Yeah. I was at your retreat in January and I was like, yep, I’m good without kids.

[00:24:09] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: yep.

[00:24:10] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: think I included on my vision board. I was like, I’m a child free life lifer.

[00:24:15] Like I just was on board with not having kids and then literally the next month I come back to California. I’m like, Jamie, I think I may be pregnant.

[00:24:22] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: We were together. I know, like, I have no idea, but I’m good either way. And you were, it was literally a month later.

[00:24:33] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: So crazy.

[00:24:35] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yes. That’s so powerful. Oh my gosh.

[00:24:39] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I guess

[00:24:39] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:24:40] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: to to be said too,

[00:24:41] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:24:42] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: guys want to manifest something, I swear to God the key is, I mean, you know this

[00:24:46] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah,

[00:24:47] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: attachment to it, and so

[00:24:48] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: yeah.

[00:24:48] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: wanna talk about processes when you’re going through heartbreak, it’s like it still comes back to releasing attachment.

[00:24:55] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and one of the things that I’ll mention, even I, I remember you doing was it’s not like you like released completely the desire that you had for those maternal instincts or to have that kind of mothering energy. You just found new channels for it. You were like, it doesn’t have to be through me having a child.

[00:25:14] So you started teaching figure skating to kids and you were like throwing your dog like birthday parties. And I just remember you were like, you know what? Why am I waiting? For this to happen to really like cultivate that energy that I really want. And so it’s like, of course you were a match to it. You released it, had to come through this and took off the pressure, and you would just free yourself.

[00:25:37] So

[00:25:38] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: attachment to the how, which as

[00:25:39] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: yeah.

[00:25:39] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: you say that, Jamie, what I think is interesting about that is sometimes I don’t realize that I’m attached to a, how,

[00:25:47] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:25:48] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: think it’s the outcome.

[00:25:50] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:25:51] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: You know what I mean? Like we, I think I’m manifesting the outcome of a kid, but I’m actually secretly attached to the how of creating that thing.

[00:25:59] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:26:00] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: so I find that really interesting as you repeated that back to me.

[00:26:03] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:26:04] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: yeah, do

[00:26:05] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: do you think people are really looking for, you know, with a child that’s like, for that maternal connection, having kids like, you know, um. What do you think it is people are looking for in partnership that maybe they could start finding ways to like let out that energy now before, you know, it’s like without needing it to be someone they’re married to.

[00:26:32] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I mean it’s connection

[00:26:34] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:26:34] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: like I hear oftentimes like I want that connection. I want that deep connection. It’s intimacy. I want intimacy with someone. Deep conversation, physical intimacy.

[00:26:45] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah,

[00:26:46] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: and then even love, like I have so

[00:26:48] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: yeah,

[00:26:48] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: to give. I wanna be giving love and I wanna be. I mean, a lot of it’s the same as the kids stuff.

[00:26:53] Celebrating having someone to celebrate with and

[00:26:56] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: yeah,

[00:26:56] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: spending my holidays with all of it felt very similar to

[00:27:00] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: yeah,

[00:27:01] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: were going through.

[00:27:02] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. So powerful. Oh my gosh. I love that.

[00:27:08] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: work on this where they’re like, we’re, well, we’ll, we’ll kind of like define like, what does it mean to you to be a wife, right?

[00:27:14] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:27:14] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: really wanting a husband, what does it mean to you

[00:27:17] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:27:17] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: And how can you start showing up like that today? And even some of my clients are doing the mothering stuff as well, like where

[00:27:24] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:27:24] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: what does that mean to you? And I think it’s different. And like the things that you have in mind, don’t diminish them.

[00:27:31] Like

[00:27:31] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:27:32] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: yourself to say them out loud because. When you answer them out loud, it actually gives you a lot of insight into how I can make that happen for myself. And I remember that with you specifically, where I think you had asked me a question about like, well, what are the experiences specifically that you were wanting to have as a mom? And as soon

[00:27:50] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:27:51] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: saying them, I was like, well, I wanted to teach my child things. I

[00:27:54] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:27:55] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: them and throw birthday parties. And all of a sudden I’m like. I have Tinkerbell,

[00:27:59] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yes.

[00:28:00] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: that I could

[00:28:01] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Of course.

[00:28:02] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: parties for which she’s five. Can you believe that?

[00:28:04] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Oh my gosh.

[00:28:07] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: And then

[00:28:07] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: You have a 5-year-old?

[00:28:08] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I know and then teaching kids something, I’m like, there’s so many ways to do that. And that’s where I

[00:28:13] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:28:14] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: start volunteering at the Valerie house teaching kids about grief. Um, and then teaching the figure skating. So there’s lots of ways to like fulfill the energy that you’re talking about when you think

[00:28:24] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yep.

[00:28:24] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: a partner to do that in a, a variety of ways.

[00:28:28] And it doesn’t mean you’re doing that. To suffice the actual thing. It’s doing it so that you can feel the feelings now,

[00:28:37] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: A hundred percent.

[00:28:38] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: will ultimately create the, the thing that you want.

[00:28:41] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: A hundred percent. Yep.

[00:28:43] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: too. I think that’s important. It’s like you don’t have to reduce desire for the actual dream that you have.

[00:28:49] You have to reduce desire for the specific person, which is the

[00:28:52] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah,

[00:28:53] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: of like what we’re

[00:28:53] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: exactly.

[00:28:54] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: like you might think the how is your ex.

[00:28:58] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:28:58] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: But it’s not like you,

[00:29:00] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yes.

[00:29:01] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: that you had with your ex, that’s still available and it’s time for you to like double down and make it happen and not give up on it just because your ex gave up on it.

[00:29:09] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah. Yeah. So good. I love that. Okay, so I have one last kind of thing that I wanna dive in with you, because the way that you think is different from a lot of. What I hear in the world about heartbreak, which you know and your program is, is get over your X in three months or less. So like the timing piece.

[00:29:29] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Yeah.

[00:29:30] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: love hearing what you,

[00:29:31] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: you,

[00:29:31] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: you share about timing because I know there’s this thought out there that like time heals all wounds. So it’s not about moving through these, it’s just about time. Eventually. You’ll move through this, do you believe, tell me about what you know as someone who has been doing this work with clients for, what is it, like 10, almost 10 years now.

[00:29:53] Yeah,

[00:29:54] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: 10 years.

[00:29:54] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: yeah.

[00:29:55] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: 10 years.

[00:29:56] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: I know.

[00:29:57] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I do not believe in time heals all. Um, yeah, so time. I actually just don’t believe in time in general. Like I never use time as like a, as a. Like a milestone or a pillar. I believe that getting over your X can happen in a moment. And the reason for this is, and I’m talking to a great audience ’cause I’m sure you guys already have heard this before, but thoughts create feelings, right? So if thoughts determine our feelings. It doesn’t matter how much time passes. If our stories and our thoughts don’t change, you won’t feel differently about your breakup.

[00:30:33] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:30:34] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: onto anger and resentment for a year and a half doing all of the quote unquote right things going, no contact, all this stuff.

[00:30:40] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:30:41] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: I hadn’t changed the thoughts in my head, of course the feelings didn’t change. Now the reason I think we say Time heals all is because. We witness our perspective shift over time, but we don’t have to wait for time to happen to have that change in perspective. And so that’s why it’s so beautiful in, you know, in the get over your X in three months or less program, we change that per. Perspective through a variety of exercises together that forces a change in perspective that creates closure and completion and clarity around that experience so that you are over your ex.

[00:31:19] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah,

[00:31:20] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: think talk a little bit about no contact if you have, if that,

[00:31:24] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: please.

[00:31:25] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: no contact is another one of those big kind of pieces of advice that are out there is like you have to go no contact with your ex and I want to remind you that it’s not. contact or no contact that gets you over that. We have plenty of people who co-parent co-work, or have mutual friend groups that are over their ex. And there’s plenty of people who are no contact, who are not over their ex. And the reason for that, again, is thoughts, because it’s all about reducing desire and attachment. And if you have desire for your ex and attachment to them creating the world that you would like to create, then of course contact. Might be quote unquote triggering

[00:32:06] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:32:07] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: you still have the desire for them. But if you have no desire for them and no attachment to them, and you see them at a party, they’re just like another human being.

[00:32:13] You feel

[00:32:13] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah.

[00:32:14] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: feel indifferent, you feel calm. How wonderful. Right? And we would rather, to me, I would rather you get to a place where the, the triggers are eliminated. Because you’ve done the real like root cause work of reducing desire and attachment, and that’s all done through changing your perspective about that person.

[00:32:34] It’s all done through changing your thoughts to reduce desire and attachment from like a 10 on your 10 point scale to a zero on your 10 point scale. So all of that has nothing to do with time and has everything to do with your change of perspective, which happens in a moment.

[00:32:54] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: So good. Mic drop. Dorothy, you’re so awesome.

[00:32:59] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: important work. This is important

[00:33:01] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yes.

[00:33:02] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: to know.

[00:33:03] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. It’s so good. So Dorothy, you have to share where all the people can find you, follow you, uh, work with you. Anytime someone mentions that they’re going through breakup or heartbreak, I’m like, go follow Dorothy. She’s the best of the best.

[00:33:21] I mean, I know this is just part of your soul calling your dharma. Like you were, you were put here to do this work and you’re. So amazing at it, and I love your perspective on it. So please share where everyone can find you.

[00:33:34] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Thank you, boo. I love this work so much. I’m so grateful that this is what I get to do in and out. It’s just the best. Um, so you can definitely, you’ll find me, um, on the How to Get Over Your Ex Podcast. If you have a friend who’s really going through it, buy them a coffee, send them the How To Get Over Your Ex Podcast.

[00:33:50] It’s completely free podcast. It’s like the, the Netflix of breakups. It gives you the how tos, the next steps. They’re short, powerful, impactful episodes that give you kind of a problem, solution in your next steps. if you want to come hang out with me on Instagram, it’s at breakup Coach Dorothy. I would love to see you there.

[00:34:07] Feel free to send me a dm. Um, and then you can also find my website at dorothyabjohnson.com and you can find all of my resources there.

[00:34:17] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: Yeah, we’ll link it all up in the show notes. So

[00:34:20] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: Oh,

[00:34:20] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: thank you, Dorothy. So appreciate you being here. Yes,

[00:34:24] dorothy–she-her-_1_03-04-2026_160444: to be here. And thanks to all of your listeners. I love your people so much.

[00:34:29] jamie–she-her-_19_03-04-2026_120445: yes.