What’s Actually Working in Sales Right Now with Megan Smyth

Welcome back to the podcast everyone. I have a super special guest for you today. You’re gonna love this episode. If you’re someone who. Involves any piece of selling in your business, which I mean, I would say is probably all of you because we have a guest and expert that I’ve been wanting to have on the podcast for a while and we’ve finally worked it out.

So I have Megan Smyth here who is a former pre-med student turned sales coach and strategist, and she’s on a mission to take the sleeze out of selling and help women entrepreneurs find ethical sales strategies. That work for them, meaning no pushy sales tactics. .

Paid ads or social media required. Okay. So excited to talk about this. She’s a firm believer that the world needs more wealthy women. Megan empowers her clients to grow both their income and their impact and her unique background in neuroscience has helped clients double their revenue, triple conversion rates, and stay booked out months in advance, even after raising their prices.

So welcome, Megan. So excited to have you, and I can’t wait to dive into this topic, so I’m curious you. Yeah. Yes. So you went from being a pre-med student and you studied neuroscience, and then you became a sales coach. How did that transition happen?

Yeah, I would say a lot. A series of happy accidents. So I realized about two years into my four year pre-med degree that I didn’t wanna be a doctor. There were aspects of it that I absolutely loved and I really enjoyed, like you mentioned, the, the neuroscience aspect on understanding how people think.

And I loved my anatomy classes, but there were certain aspects that I. Loved less so, and I knew it just wasn’t that, it wasn’t my one true passion and purpose in life. I could see some of my friends, how they were so all in and you, it’s a career you really do need to be all in committed to because it is your whole life when you work in the, in that field.

And so I was like, well, if this isn’t it, like what is it? What am I, you know, searching for? So I did the whole soul searching trip to Bali thing. I booked a one-way ticket to Thailand on my. Summer break when all my friends were writing the MCAT tests and I was like, I’m gonna go for a couple months and I’m gonna figure my life out.

And on that trip I did realize, I wanted to start my own business. I wanted to do something creative that gave me the freedom to keep traveling. And I sort of stumbled onto copywriting by accident. So I actually just applied for a job that I really had no business applying for. I had zero experience and I reached out to this woman who.

What’s actually a business coach helping other women start online businesses. This was like the heyday of the whole laptop lifestyle thing. And I knew I wanted to be doing what she was doing. She was hiring for, actually, it was a blog writer. It wasn’t even like sales copy, it was just content at the time.

And I basically reached out to her and said like, Hey, I have no experience, no skills and qualifications, but I really think I could do this job. Like just give me a chance. I will work hard. I will learn like you won’t find anyone more dedicated and I’ll, at the time I was still juggling like I was. Still school and I had like a A side hustle day job going already and then another side hustle and working medical research.

So there was like a lot going on and I was like, I can do this. And she said, yes. She took a chance on me, which I’m so appreciative of. And that sort of kicked off my copywriting business and that was the first step.

Oh my gosh, that’s amazing. Isn’t it wild how things work like that? Like the, the amazing how like this thing where you’re like, I don’t know this random job. I’m in Bali, I’ll take it, and then it opens up a whole new world for you. It’s cool.

I will say I was so close to not applying to like I, and everything would be so different if I hadn’t. Right. That started it all. I had just recently, like maybe a week before I saw that job posting come across something that said, some stat about how men will apply to a job listing if they meet like.

40% of the requirements and women won’t apply unless they meet a hundred percent. And that really like ticked me off and it stayed with me. And so when this job posting just sort of came across my dashboard and the internet, I thought, you know what? Like, why not? We’ll just give it a chance. And it, that one, you know, action completely changed my life for sure.

That’s amazing and that’s so good to keep in mind, like just do it. Just try. Why not? Even if you don’t have experience, if you’re feeling the nudge, if you’re feeling the call, just do it. I know it’s wild. Those things in our lives that like, wow, what if I didn’t do that? It is like remembering back, I almost didn’t do it.

Where would my life be? Right? Like, it’s weird. with my husband, it is the same thing where like, I, I canceled our first date. ’cause was like, I don’t know if I wanna, and

I dunno about

I’m like, what if we hadn’t set up a second date? Right. Like, our worlds would be so different. So it’s amazing. Um, but yeah, I wanna hear more about your methodology with.

Sales and you know, since that moment of, you know, taking the copywriting job and learning copywriting, and then I imagine starting to understand the process of selling and what works and your own way, I’d love to hear what you learned that you think others need to hear or understand.

Oh my gosh. So many things, so many directions where I take this. But I’ll start by saying, my journey in my copywriting business, it wasn’t like smooth sailing. I wasn’t one of those people who, I started my business and like six months in I made a hundred k or whatever. That was not my story.

I, my first. Six figure year was like year three, and the first couple years were a bit of a grind and a bit of a struggle. And ironically it turned out I was a really good copywriter and I was a sales copywriter specifically. And that background in psychology and neuroscience and understanding like what drives people to make decisions really lent itself to me, helping my clients with their sales and their marketing.

And over time that evolved into me helping, like on the strategy side and doing some consulting and their launches and things like that as well. And my clients were getting these. Amazing results, and I could sell the heck outta their services and their offers and programs. But I was really struggling to sell my own services, and I just thought that was like such an interesting disconnect, was like, okay, I’m, I know I can sell, so why am I struggling so much to do it for myself?

And the first couple years of my business, I just relied entirely on referrals because like I said, my clients were happy. I was like, I can do the job, but I’m having a hard time selling my ability to do the job. And it took me a long time to figure out why. And so that’s the first thing I’d say to people is the first sort of cheat code is that I spent those first couple years listening to everyone on the internet, soaking in all the advice, or just like a sponge. Did you see these people who look like they have it all figured out? They’re more experienced, more successful. I have, like I said, had no background. I was like, I don’t know what I’m doing in this, online business. Face. I’m new here, so of course I was looking for other people and looking to other people, and when they said I had to do certain things like show up on social media every day, post consistently, be on stories and, and show your face and do this, that and the other.

I tried all of the things and a lot of those things didn’t sit right with me. And so I would either do them and I would feel like weird and icky about it, or I wouldn’t do them consistently because it just felt terrible. And so I’d end up avoiding it. And so I was just. Stuck in this cycle where I never found what worked for me.

And it all came to a head about two years into running my business when through a series of unfortunate events, I ended up losing all of my copywriting clients in one week. Like no joke, like there was just like, it was the most random series of events people had family emergencies and business breakdowns, all the things, and my revenue dropped down to zero.

I had just joined a expensive mastermind that I was now on the line to pay for every month. So my profit was actually in the negative. And I just remember lying on the floor and I was in Portugal at the time. I was lying on the floor of my Airbnb with like a bottle of Vino Verde and I was like, well, this is it.

Like it’s been a fun ride, but like it’s over, this is the end of the line. And I realized like I can either give up now and go and get. A real job. I was like, can always go back and, apply to be a doctor, and I was like, maybe that’s the easier option or I could figure out a way to make this work for me.

’cause at this point I tried everything that everyone else told me to do and it hadn’t worked and so I didn’t really have anything to lose at that point I thought. I’m just gonna, I called it my experiment with my science background. I was like, I’m just gonna see what happens. What happens if I stopped following all the shoulds in my business and started following the fun?

Like what do I actually enjoy? And like, why not? If I’ve only got another couple months at this, why not have fun? Why on the way out? And it completely changed everything, it wasn’t overnight, like I said, but like six months in, I had the consistent clients back, and by the end of that year, that ended up being my first six figure year.

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. There’s so much magic in this story that I wanna unpack it. So good. So I, the first thing I wanna ask about, I wanna back up to the part where you were sharing how you could sell for other people or work for other people, but you struggled to sell for yourself. Now I think that story, not, I think, I know that story resonates with a lot of people.

They feel like, God, I’ve been successful in my career, or I’ve even been successful in sales somewhere else, and I can sell the heck out of other people’s products or things. But when it comes to selling myself and my services or my products, I struggle. I, I can’t do it. It feels different. It feels icky.

It feels sleazy. Would you be open to sharing what shifted for you and or what, what you would maybe recommend to others who are in that place where they just feel like they can’t sell their own stuff? It’s very hard for them. They feel there’s a block there.

Yeah, it’s so, so common, and it’s interesting. I’ve heard it all now, right? Having worked in sales, like I ask people like, what are the thoughts that come up? And there’s such a wide range of responses. Like you said, it’s icky, it’s uncomfortable. I don’t wanna brag, I don’t wanna pressure people. All these.

Things. And what’s so interesting to me is that I, as a copywriter, I worked with all kinds of different clients before I niched down to working with women entrepreneurs specifically. And I’ve heard that those type of re responses and that resistance around sales, from pretty much everyone I’ve ever worked with, I have never, ever heard any of the men that.

Work with, have that resistance to to sales. And so for me that is actually a little bit of the fuel and the fire. Kind of like the, going back to the job posting and the application was, it was really hard to do it for me to say I’m gonna apply for this job. But when I felt like I was part of the sort of collective well, maybe I can change that.

Statistic, right? Maybe me doing this will, maybe someone listening to this interview will hear that story and she’ll feel inspired. In fact, I’ve shared that story about the, the initial copywriting job before and had people reach out and tell me that, and that’s such an incredible feeling. So it was the same thing with sales was like, if I can learn to do this and kind of get over this hump myself, maybe I can help other women, right?

Rising tide lifts all boats. That was something I, I really worked at. And so I think one recognizing like it’s not your fault. There’s very real fe like reasons why we have those feelings and why women do especially a hundred percent. It’s so ingrained into us and we’re so socialized from an early age to be accommodating and put other people first.

Don’t make people uncomfortable. Nothing makes people more uncomfortable than talking about or asking for money. Nothing makes. People more uncomfortable than a woman confidently owning her worth and standing in it. So there’s very real reason. So I think step number one is to just acknowledge that, and then step number two is to say, okay, it’s not my fault that I’m feeling this way, but it is your responsibility as a business owner that like you can take steps to change that.

And we’ll talk about how to do that too.

I love that. So good. It’s so true. really a, yeah, having a why behind it really matters. Like looking, like you said, it’s like, oh, well if I can learn this, I can teach it to others too, and I can kind of pave the way for what I wanna see in the world. So I have found that to be for myself too. A big way that I get over humps is really digging deep into why do I wanna do it?

What’s the purpose behind it? And that stretches me to do the uncomfortable. Because I imagine it still wasn’t super comfortable in the beginning for you, was it? Or, or what was

Oh, no, no, no.

Yeah.

Absolutely not. And that’s part of it too. And, and one thing I hear from people is they’ll say like, I don’t have the skill of selling. Like they’re like, I am just not a sales person. I’ll have the personality for, and to which I say. That is a skill you can learn and comes with practice. Like everything in your business, in your daily life.

Right now, at one point you didn’t know how to do, right? Like at one point you had to, you know, send your first invoice to a client or do your first podcast episode and things that now feel second nature to you at one point were also new and scary. So it’s the same thing with selling. It does come with with time and practice, you’ll get more comfortable.

But like you said, part of it also just reframing what does selling even mean in. Your own mind, so we could talk about that too. I have a couple sort of frames that I find people they

do 

let’s talk about it. I love that. Let’s dive into it. What does sale selling mean?

Yeah. So the first thing I always like to start with is what is selling? Not. So, the goal in my mind is not to push, persuade, convince or otherwise pressure people into buying from you.

You should not and cannot really convince someone to buy something. They don’t want or need. And so if that’s your fear, let’s just start there. If you’re not gonna accidentally convince someone to buy something they don’t need, that’s not a thing you need to be worried about. Your job is to help people make an empowered buying decision and the best choice for them.

So you’re giving them the information they need to do that. And I like the word empowered because. One thing that comes up a lot in sales is objections and hesitations. And that’s something people hesitate to, they’re like, I don’t wanna push on objections. No, we don’t wanna push on objections and we don’t wanna you know, pressure anyone, like I said.

But you do need to address objections because objections as we can talk about are usually. Forms of limiting beliefs people have. And so if you’re not addressing them, you are leaving them in that state of disempowerment, right? It’s like, oh, I don’t have time. I can’t afford it, right? Let’s have those conversations.

So at the very least, they can make a fully empowered and informed decision.

I love it. That’s so good. Such a good reframe of objections. It’s yeah, and that one thing that shifted for me when working with that is I just started thinking of it. If I’m not talking them through it, I’m not actually coaching them, like working objections or if I always think of they’re just like.

Fears that are

They are. Yeah.

scared of expansion, which happens, right? Like anytime we’re about to expand or move into something where we’re growing our ego’s no, let’s go back in the cave and come up with our normal excuses. So it really is just like working through that. It’s coaching them through that, talking them through that, you know, instead of pressuring them or forcing them.

That’s not what it’s,

Yeah, exactly. And ultimately we wanna get to this place where the buying experience is. I like to think of it as an exchange of enthusiasm. So if you think of like a Venn diagram, there’s you on one side and the the buyer, the client on the other. And that little overlap is the sort of sweet spot where like you are excited to talk about what you have to offer and they’re excited to work with you.

Like it’s a win-win experience. Everyone feels good. And if you’re listening to this, I know you’ve had positive buying experiences before, right? We’ve all had negative ones where we felt uncomfortable, where we being sold to. And it was weird at Nikki, but hopefully you’ve also bought something that. Gave you joy and was a joyful buying experience.

So why can’t you create that for someone too?

I love that. And I think it’s really important to look at that too, because it is interesting, right? With that negativity bias where the uncomfortable situations or the icky, you know, sales exchanges are what sometimes stick in our head, so then we therefore make the assumptions, oh, selling is sleazy.

is icky, but that’s not the only one. That might be like. One in, a hundred. So I love that of looking at where the positive experiences have been. So I’d love to talk to the person who already sells, they’re making money in their business, they are selling, but they want to get better at it, right?

They’d love to improve conversions. They’d like to get even better at selling. Where would you say they should begin if they want to? Just amp it up and take their selling to the next level.

Ooh, this is such a fun question. Okay, well, the first thing I will say is to always know your numbers. So selling is a huge topic and some people are gonna kind of maybe be alarmed by this, but I do believe you should always be selling in your business. You should not always be closing. I think that’s.

That’s crap. That’s outdated, like nineties, uh, sales advice there. You should not always be closing. You should not always be pitching your offer, but every interaction that someone has with you, your brand, your business should be hopefully moving them further along on their buyer’s journey. Because in this, attention economy that we all live in, if they’re not moving further along.

They’re gone. You’ve lost them. And so it’s not about being salesy all the time, like I said, or pitching or talking about your offers even necessarily, but just continuing to further that relationship, if you will. So, in my mind, you should be selling from like that very first interaction in your free content, even if what you’re quote unquote.

Selling them on is just like why they should keep listing to you, why they should keep reading your posts. That underlying skill of, knowing how to capture, hold attention, those are all sales skills, right down to of course, like getting them on a call, closing on the call, continuing that relationship retention.

All of that is of. Form of selling. And so first and foremost I would look at like what is your current sales funnel or system look like? What are the numbers telling you in terms of, where are you potentially losing people on that journey and where can you shore up your conversions so that you’re not just trying to learn sales as a whole?

Sales and marketing as a massive topic, but really defining like what are maybe my weak spots that could use him shoring up, and like, how can I really master that one piece?

Ooh, that’s good. I love it. Yes, numbers are good. That’s why we wanna look

We love numbers

of them. And it’s so funny ’cause as you’re talking, I’m like, we share so many of the same processes, beliefs, and mine happens to be around money and yours is around selling. But it’s

very related. Yeah.

are mimicked.

I’m like. It’s wild and you’re sharing so many of the same kind of thoughts that I have about money in sales. So that’s really fun because if you’ve been listening to this podcast or doing the work around money, think about what if I implemented some of the same things that I’ve been learning around money towards selling and towards, my beliefs around selling, right?

really fun. Yes.

If you’re an entrepreneur, like money of course can come from lots of different places and different sources, but chances are if you own a business, most of your income. Is coming through sales in your business. And so it’s very reliant, like almost 100% reliant on your ability to sell.

There’s really no more, an essential skill selling is just the skill of making money, and that’s a skill that will serve you no matter how your business changes or evolves, and even outside of your business as well. If you decide you wanna, start another company or go on some new venture, that skill is only gonna serve you.

Yes. Yes, a hundred percent. Couldn’t agree more. Okay. One thing that I wanna talk about, because I know people are wondering, ’cause you mentioned, not do using paid ads. Not, on social all the time, these things that didn’t feel good for you. For some people that’s gonna feel great and it’s like go all in, do it.

But for people who are like, I really only see people selling through social or through paid advertising, and I feel like I have to be on Instagram or TikTok or wherever all the time, and it just doesn’t resonate with me. It doesn’t resonate with my energy with what I wanna be doing. I’m just wondering, I know that you had mentioned like you followed the fun.

But what about for someone who says I don’t even see another way. What are the other ways of selling? What would you say to them?

Yeah, it’s such a great question. And they’re really endless opportunities in my mind. And we get so stuck in these boxes of like, well, I have to be on Instagram or LinkedIn or TikTok or like whatever it is, right? And like there’s no other option. And let me tell you, there’s lots of very successful business owners out there who are not on social media who’re not on those specific platforms or using those specific strategies.

So there’s always a way, right? And the, I would really question anytime you have that feeling of I have to be doing it. Because even if it turns out to be something that maybe you’re good at or do enjoy, there’s still that like energetic component of it’s never gonna get as great of results as it could if you’re coming from that place of I have to be here versus I’m choosing to.

So that’s the first thing is to explore, other options and look at what type of, so if we’re talking about content, for example, like top of funnel marketing. If you were to look at, okay, how can I replace social media? Well, what role does social media play in your business now? Like, what is it doing for you, or what do you want it to be doing for your business?

So is it lead generation? Is it pure visibility, like just getting in front of new people? I think most commonly that’s what it is. I would argue it’s not the best platform for lead generation, but it can be great for just getting like more eyes on your staff, right? And getting your business in front of more people.

So if that’s the case, okay, how else could you do that? How else could you increase your visibility and get in front of new audiences? Obviously, paid ads are one option to do that, so is pr, so is long form evergreen content like a podcast. SEO YouTube, like there are so many options in person marketing and networking.

I’ve seen people have success with, uh, referral partnerships and creating those relationships or just connecting with people. I hate the term networking, but if you have some sort of strategic approach of I’m gonna connect with this many new people. It doesn’t have to be on social, could be over email and not cold pitching them as clients, but just creating those.

Connections and opening doors that way. There’s so many ways to get creative with it, but first and foremost you have to know what’s the end goal, what’s the purpose here? I personally really love this longer form content, like podcasting, for example as an alternative to social.

Amazing. So good. There are so many good ideas in there, and I think. The question you asked is really powerful, which is like opening your mind to what could be some other options, what could be some other ways, what are some other ways? And it’s like looking for that, right? Because the, our brain will answer, or our subconscious will answer the questions that we ask.

’cause sometimes we just have to ask instead of saying, this is the only way I have to be in this box, right? Exploring what could be fun, what’s different? How are other people selling? If I couldn’t, another good one would be like, if I couldn’t sell through social, let’s

Yeah.

couldn’t. If that’s your block, right?

How could I make this business work?

And you would find a way. That’s the thing, right? You will find the way. And the answer is, I like, personally, I just got to a point where I, I thought of showing up on Instagram stories, filming with so much dread that I was like, well, I gotta find an alternative. Uh, and I did. And you know, I’m happy to share.

Like for me, that was podcasting and it was a bit of that quote unquote cold outreach. Like I said, it wasn’t really. Pitching people but referral partnerships, building those relationships, like all kinds of things that involved zero social.

So amazing. Yay. Example of what’s possible. I love it. So I’ve heard a lot of people sharing. I’ll ask one more kind of strategy question and I wanna get into some of the energetics. ’cause I know you’re masterful at that too, but I’ve heard a lot of people sharing like, Hey, what’s been working doesn’t seem to be

Mm-hmm.

right now or anymore.

Like they feel like this year there’s been a shift. Like, okay, the way that I used to launch, or the challenges that I used to do, or the process. The funnels that I used to have, literally, they used to be so successful and all of a sudden it’s like, what happened? So I’m curious, like for people who are in that place, could you speak to what number one.

How you would hold the pivot and the way of trying something new. And then number two, maybe even more strategically, what are you seeing working these days or are there trends that you’re seeing like, Hey, this tends like we’re trending in this direction. This is what I’m seeing.

It’s so funny, I just recorded a an hour long solo episode on this topic ’cause it’s such a big topic and I’ve been

Go listen to her podcast.

I’ve been getting that question too, and I’ve been hearing the same thing, from my audience. The one thing I will start with saying is try not to panic. I know it’s, it is scary when you see, conversions or sales drop off, but to an extent this is normal, right? Businesses and, marketplaces go through cycles and the online business space has really evolved. And so people are saying that the market has become more saturated.

It’s like noisy, it’s busy, it’s crowded, and there’s more competition. And that’s why I don’t think, that’s why the market is more. Sophisticated meaning buyers are more educated, they’re more aware, and they’re also more wary of investing. For sure. So I would say the biggest thing to be aware of is the sort of lack of trust that a lot of people are experiencing across all industries.

I’ve heard a really common objection. These days is the sort of what I’ve coined, like the been burned before objection. Whether, they’ve invested in a coach or this type of program before and it didn’t work out. The, that person over promise and under, under-delivered and all the things.

And so yes, the market has changed. I think the really important thing to be aware of is, your buyers are still out there. They’re, they still need what you have to offer, but what they need to hear from you as the business owner and the marketer has. Changed a hundred percent. So I think to ignore that is dangerous, to just keep using the same funnel templates and scripts that worked five years ago, it maybe isn’t gonna pan out in terms of how to adjust those strategically and bring things up to speed.

It always comes down to your messaging. So I’ll say strategically, I wouldn’t, it’s not the time to panic and be like, I need to change platforms or webinars are dead and all this stuff. I’ve seen every, strategy and tactic like die and come back from the dead at this point so many times.

So I wouldn’t look at like the actual tactics so much as the messaging and how you’re. Communicating with your people. And like I said, that objection is top of mind for a lot of people. They’ve been burned before. Also, pricing objections with the economy and everything that’s happening politically in the states as well.

So knowing that, knowing your audience has those objections, what did they need to hear from you to feel safe Investing? I think the worst thing you can do in this scenario is. Ignore what’s happening and not address it. I know people sometimes hesitate to address objections ’cause they’re like, oh, I don’t wanna call attention to the fact that like the economy is in shambles and all these things.

And I’m like, that’s the worst thing you can do. The best thing you can do is call it out, like address the elephant in the room. Speak to that objection with. Empathy, get curious, have those conversations. Now is the time to really be like in the trenches with your audience, having those conversations in terms of what is holding them back and how could ethically and in an empowering way, help them through that because they need you now more than ever.

Yeah. That’s so good. That’s gold right there. So good. I love it. Okay, I wanna get into some of the fun energetic woo neuroscience because I know you have a background in that. And then when I was on your podcast, we geeked out on this stuff, so. I’d love to hear all your, oh my gosh, I love everything you’ve shared and I wanna like shift gears into maybe some of the internal strategic or not strategic, the internal energetic, the importance of that piece of like your energy and the thoughts that you’re practicing and who you’re being. Can you speak a little bit to that when it comes to selling and to what work or how you prepare for sales calls or, you know, creating the funnel on an internal level?

Yes, so this is so important. I wouldn’t say it’s like a hundred percent of selling, but it’s close. It’s like 95% possibly because, and like I said, this was how I transitioned from strategic consulting to coaching because I realized no amount of strategy could make up for if you feel uncomfortable asking for the sale and that mindset and energy.

Side. And so it’s why in that my program now, that stuff is in module one. I’m like, we’ll get to the tactics. Like I’ve got all the templates, I’ve got the scripts, and the strategy for you to pick and choose from it is like a buffet of sales strategies and options for you. But first we need to talk about this real quick.

I make sure your mindset is on the right page before we get into all of that. So the first thing I will say is. S you know, thinking through, like we talked about earlier, what are those hesitancies, or what resistance are you feeling? From the get go when you think about sales, right? So what are those thoughts running through your brain?

If you haven’t done that work before, or maybe you’ve done it for money, but you haven’t done the, the sales side, chances are they’ll be similar. And just getting those thoughts like down on paper is the place to start to externalize that. I’ve heard you talk about in your podcast before, Jamie, the skill of metacognition, which I’m a huge fan of as well.

And just separating yourself from your thoughts and then interrogating that and being like, is this. Really true a hundred percent of the time because we say these things like they’re facts, right? Selling is sleazy. Business is hard. I’ll never have consistent clients and it feels so true.

It feels so real, right? Like, selling is hard and I’m not gonna close the sale and this is that. And you really have to interrogate them, like I said, and be like, but is that really true? A hundred percent of the time am I catastrophizing here? Because we all do it, you know?

Yeah. Yes.

Done.

So good. I love it. So start with that. That’s a great start. And then how about before someone’s going into, sorry, I got distracted. Did you see that thing? It’s a network of struggling.

Oh, no, I didn’t.

Oh, it’s on my end, I think. Okay. Let me re-say that. ’cause it was I was like, what’s going on here? I’m sorry.

Okay. Okay, we’ll reset. Okay. So good. So me metacognition, looking at your thoughts, being willing to challenge them. Do you have any favorite thoughts or perspectives when it comes to selling or like when someone’s about to like, Ooh, I wanna make the pitch. I know they’re the right client for me and I’d to share it, but I’m scared.

Is there something that you could offer for the person that’s like in that moment that could be helpful as like a mantra or a reminder?

I have a few personal go-to favorites, but before I share them, I’ll say the important thing is to pick something that really resonates with you, that feels good in your body when you say it, because it’s kind of like, you know, money mantras. Like if you say it and it doesn’t feel true, if you just tell yourself like, I’m a millionaire every day and you’re broke, your brain is gonna be like, absolutely not.

Yeah. Okay. So it’s the same thing like with sales. And so going back to like when you have that list of what are your current beliefs? Around sales and like looking at that. Okay, so you wanna choose something that is either, the opposite of that or at least like a bridge that, so if you have a belief that’s I suck at sales you’re not gonna replace that probably right off the bat with something like, I am the best saleswoman on the planet.

But you might have, a bridge that’s saying something like, I’m learning. I how to sell. I am developing that skill. I’m learning how to make more money or how to be more consistent in my marketing or whatever it is that you’re, struggling with. Some of my favorites are, especially right now when a lot of people are stuck in fear with everything that’s going on in the world and in our marketplace and all of that.

I really love the one that there are opportunities everywhere and there always are. Like, that’s something I personally come back to and it’s so amazing when you tell yourself that how true it becomes. And I really think that. Seeing the world that way will be the difference between the people who kind of stick out this tough period and the people who totally shut down because if you keep telling yourself.

You know that people aren’t buying right now, the economy, no one wants this, no one’s willing to pay this amount. That becomes true. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, and that’s not like woo woo and, and spiritual. There is neuroscience behind that. I’m happy to share more, but like, that’s literally how the brain.

Works. And I’ll never forget, one of my very first classes in university, it was I think it was a psychobiology lecture, and the professor stood up there on day one and he said something that changed my life. He said, we don’t get what we want. We get what we expect. And if you don’t see that happening in your sales conversations, let me tell you, it is a thousand percent.

If you go into a call and you’re like, no one’s ever gonna pay me this amount, or No one’s buying right now, people don’t want this. That becomes. True in so, so many different ways and I’m, happy to go deeper on that, but let’s start there.

Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. What is the neuroscience behind that? Why does it become true if you, I mean, and you can put it in very simple terms because you know,

Yeah, yeah.

I know you have that background, but. Why I love, I’d just love for people to understand why is it true that what you expect is what you get? That typically, especially in sales.

gosh.

The simple answer is that the human brain really loves being right. So whatever you consciously choose to tell yourself, or just the thoughts that you think repetitively so for example, no one’s buying right now. Or, I suck at business, I suck at sales. If you tell yourself something like that, your brain, part of your brain that you’re not consciously aware of, which is actually running the show and controlling, we’re only consciously aware of around 5% of our thoughts and actions, and the rest is all.

Unconscious or subconscious so that subconscious part of your brain is gonna go, got it, boss. I’m on it. Let me go collect all of the evidence for why you’re terrible at business so that I can prove it’s like a lawyer going to find all of the evidence in building a case for why that belief is true.

And it’s just being reinforced over and over again. And there is, you know, a part of our brain. And sort of access this filtering mechanism that is literally only letting through the information that is proving us, right, and is active. And not only that, but it’s actively deleting and distorting information that contradicts those beliefs.

So that’s why a lot of people struggle to recognize their own successes in business because your brain is actively deleting that. If you’re telling yourself, business is hard and whatnot, oh yeah. I did have all those wins that you completely forget about until you’re, you know. Friend or someone reminds you, that’s what’s happening there.

Literally gone from your brain.

Yes, yes. Oh my gosh. So good. You know, it’s so interesting. I have to share a story because this happened for me with selling back. This was years ago, whenever I was like starting my coaching business. Well, maybe it was like two years in when I was like, I finally need to learn the skill of selling. Like I, I probably should learn this, you know?

And so I dove in and decided I was gonna learn to sell, and I was committed to it. But I went in with this. Thought I’m bad at selling. And I, of course, that’s why I was motivated to learn it, but I believed I was bad at selling. So I was approaching it from that place. And then every consult I did, there were so many no’s.

I think I had 40 no’s before I got a yes. So I was dissecting ’em and I was what? Worked. What didn’t work, what would I do differently? But it was through the lens of I suck at selling. And I remember just having that epiphany because I was also doing so much thought work and internal work, and I believe in manifestation and the power of our thoughts.

And I caught it. And I remember thinking, wait a minute, if I believe I suck at selling thoughts become things like, I if this is impacting

I wonder if there’s something going on here.

Yes. So of like dissecting every single consult and what worked what I was like, what if I just started believing maybe I’m better at selling than I think May?

And I started looking for evidence, and then I was like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Why do I think I suck at selling? Because I worked at Nordstrom back in the day and I was a pacesetter. I actually sold a ton. I didn’t even give myself credit for that. ’cause I was like, oh, I was just good at makeup. I was personable, I was friendly.

I was kind like, I wasn’t even trying, so I didn’t give myself credit. But once I started believing, hey, maybe I’m better at selling than I think, and maybe I just do it in my own way. It’s not this strategic way that someone else is telling me I have to follow. That’s when things shifted and I started converting at such higher level.

It was what, and I felt more, me more natural. I didn’t feel like I was going and trying to sell. I was going and with the person. It just such a different energy from that one thought shift. So there’s evidence from proof right there. So I love that so much.

I will say if you go into your call with the mindset or the thought of, I need to sell, or I need to close this out, that’s never gonna serve you. So you know it, it’s not gonna work. It’s gonna backfire real hard. So the one I like to replace there is just, I’m here to help this other person.

I am here to serve them. I call my sales. Clarity calls, because that’s literally the goal is for them to get clear and make a decision. I’m just there to help facilitate that and be amazed, like you said, that actually results in a much higher conversion rate. And the part that I find so fascinating about this is your expectations or beliefs.

They’re not just impacting how you show up, but they’re also impacting the person on the other side of the call, right? So. Even if you’re not aware of it. And that’s what I find so interesting to, to geek out all the psychology aspect for it. There’s this thing called the Rosenthal Effect, where you know other people’s expectations, you’re imposing your expectations onto that other person.

So if you believe they’re not gonna say yes or they’re not gonna pay this much. Everything that you are doing, you could be saying and doing all the right things, but subconsciously you’re. Body language, your facial expression, even your tone of voice is conveying the message of, do not buy from me. I don’t believe in this.

I am uncomfortable. Like all of that is happening. And so the person on the other side, even if they can’t quite put their finger on why, they’re like, oh, they’re answering all my questions, but something feels off. You’re imposing your limiting beliefs on that other person as well.

It’s true. Oh my gosh, I know. I remember whenever I found that YouTube video on the Rosenthal Effect, which

Mind

y’all go, what? Oh my gosh. It really, the power of our thoughts on other people is absolutely fascinating, and it’s also proof why like coaching is so effective. Because when you believe in someone or when you’re selling and you actually believe in that person.

Feel it, and they can take that on for themself when they might be lacking it, or if you believe in their, abundance or their success, they can borrow that. It’s amazing. So I love that you brought that up. So good. Oh my gosh, Megan, I’ve loved this conversation so much and I want everyone to go follow your podcast and also how to, just let everyone know how to find you, how to connect with you, how to work with you if they want to deepen their skill of selling.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. Oh my gosh, this has been such a blast. So if you wanna come check out the podcast, it’s called Blaze, as in Trailblaze because we believe in doing life and business differently. Having a wonderful conversation with Jamie over there. It was, it was so good. So definitely check out that episode and then you can find me website at Megan’s.

Dot com and I am, I do have an Instagram account. I can’t promise I am super active on there. We mostly just share the podcast at this point. But email is probably the best place to connect with me work with me, all the information’s on the website as well.

Love it. Yep. We’re gonna put everything in the show notes so you’ll have it down there. Oh my God. Thank you, Megan. I’m so glad this came together and we got to have this awesome conversation. So appreciate you and Yeah.

Thank you so

Happy selling. Yeah. Alright,

score.