The Energetics of Debt & How to Release It

jamie–she-her-_1_04-17-2025_155035: [00:00:00] Hi, friend. Welcome back to the podcast. We are going to talk about a much requested topic today, which is debt, and we are going to cover the energetics of debt. We are going to cover new perspectives, new ways of looking at debt that are probably going to be very helpful, and we’re gonna talk about how to release debt if you feel that it is no longer serving you and it’s an intention that you have.

So if you have some debt, you are ready. To come into a healthier, more mature relationship with and ultimately release it. This episode is for you. I am gonna give you basically a masterclass on debt here on the podcast today. Okay. So what I wanted to cover is why people go into debt. We’re gonna cover the different reasons why people utilize debt and tend to go into debt.

We are gonna talk about some new ways of looking at it, that my hunches are going to [00:01:00] serve you more than what you’ve probably. Learned about debt, especially if you’re someone who is hating on your debt or feeling really panicked about it or feel like you just can’t get out of that cycle. Like no matter what, no matter how much you think about it or how hard you try, it just ends up being a cycle that you keep reliving over and over.

And if you’re someone who wants to complete that, we’re gonna talk about how you really need to look at it differently. And then we’ll talk about a way of actually starting to. Release it and what that looks like. And with debt and with all of the work that I put out into the world, I believe that releasing debt happens on a psychological and energetic.

And of course, an action taking level. Most of the stuff that I have learned or that I’ve seen out there tends to be only the action taking level in terms of how to pay off debt. And it’s just, do [00:02:00] this, cut this right. Gives you action steps to take. But I think for most people who are in that debt cycle or are carrying debt that, want to release it.

It’s really important to start with the foundation, which is the psychological and energetic level, and how to reframe it so that you can start paying it off in a way that’s sustainable and peaceful and grounded and actually doable. Right. So if you’re with me, let’s dive in. Let’s talk about why most people go into debt, or I don’t even wanna say, go into debt.

Utilize debt, right? Because debt is actually a channel through which abundance can be created That. Many people can utilize, right? The people who have access to that channel are able to utilize it, right? Whether that’s through loans, through student loans, through, mortgages, whether that [00:03:00] is through credit cards, there’s consumer debt.

There’s all different kinds of debt that you can utilize. And the way that I look at it is it’s just a channel. For abundance to flow, right? Debt is actually money. That’s what it is. If you have manifested debt, you have manifested money. Plain and simple. It’s just money that’s given to you in advance. In exchange for a fee, right?

Which is gonna be whatever your interest rate is. And so that’s simply what it is. It’s just money. So I think it’s really important that we don’t hate the debt that we may have, because really what that was was abundance. That you were able to receive an exchange for a fee. Simply put, that’s what debt is, right?

And a lot of people use it in very strategic ways that make. So much sense and actually end up allowing you to create so much more [00:04:00] abundance as an effect of utilizing that channel of debt that you took on. Right? Because people use it for education. I know I took on student loan debt, I took on quite a bit of it.

And that was what enabled me to go to college and get an education. And even paid for some of my living during college ’cause my parents didn’t pay for that. So it is what allowed me to survive and actually live that college life and learn and get my degree even though I haven’t used it. I also think about it like this, even though I don’t utilize the degree that I went to college for and I took on a lot of debt for it, it ultimately led me to where I am.

So I also think of it like this, even though I invested. All that money and held debt around that for many, many years. I don’t hate on that experience, even though it’s not something I utilize, but it led me to where I am. I never would’ve met my college boyfriend, who also, we decided to move out to LA together.

And [00:05:00] even though we broke up, like within a year of being in la, it got me to LA and then I met my husband here, and so many things have happened since I’ve lived here. It’s like that path was always meant to be. So I’m never gonna say that I regret it, even though I’m not utilizing it. And I spent a lot of money on it and many, many, many years paid payments on it.

I don’t regret it, right? So I’m grateful that I had that opportunity. I’m grateful that I had that experience. And so that’s kind of one way to start looking at it, even if it’s something that you’re like, man, if I were to take that on now, would I do it again? Probably not from this consciousness, right?

’cause I would know that I’m not gonna utilize it, but I don’t regret it. So that’s just a little side tangent. But really, like I said, it can be used in so many ways, whether it’s student loans, whether you’re investing in the growth of your business or your company. That’s. Really a huge strategy for so many people because the way that [00:06:00] people look at it from a business sense is, or from a growth oriented sense, is, okay, if I had access to this amount of capital, this amount of money with this fee, which is gonna be your interest rate, whether that’s, let’s just say 10%, I don’t know, 20%, whatever it is, right?

Am I gonna end up making more or growing more? Than whatever this fee is, right? Especially in a lifetime. Like if I take this capital and I add on that fee to it, am I gonna actually outgrow that as an effect of taking it on? Whether I’m using it in my business, whether I’m getting a certification, whether I am investing in a coach, whether I am getting a college degree.

Will that have a higher ROI than the cash? Plus the interest rate? And if so, people use it as an investment strategy. Right. And in fact, 80% of Americans [00:07:00] actually carry debt, and that’s because it can be used in such a powerful way. To actually grow, right? You think of real estate, that’s ama for me, that’s been an amazing investment, at least in the times that I have, invested in real estate.

I have taken on debt, I’ve taken on mortgages, but the real estate market, especially where I was. Way outgrew what my interest rate was, so I ended up making way more money on that investment than the original capital plus the interest rate. So it was a great growth strategy for me. It also gave me a place to live, right?

Also, like for skill building, you can use it for things that you need to learn or want to learn. So it can be a great, great, great growth strategy. And it’s important if you’ve utilized it for those things to start holding it not just as debt as this, word that I feel like is cursed in our society.

It’s like this bad, shameful thing, but really [00:08:00] 80% of Americans have debt, right? There’s a reason for it. It’s a channel of abundance that people use for good reason, right? So it can be used in a really powerful way. So what I would think of it as this, whoa, that was my growth strategy. If that was the case, if you used it to invest.

And it doesn’t mean that it always has the ROI right in that moment or right in that year. But what I’m always thinking about is over my lifetime, whatever I invested in, is that going to be like, what’s the ripple effect of that over my life? Or where did that end up leading me that I wouldn’t be to, if I hadn’t invested or utilized this as my strategy, if I hadn’t taken out those loans, if I hadn’t, whatever it is. If you used some credit card debt to pay for some things so look at it like that and ask yourself, if I hadn’t done that, what would be different in my life? Because maybe you’ll realize it’s not something that you really regret.

It was actually something that. Maybe led to many blessings [00:09:00] in your life. And even if it wasn’t the exact path, maybe somehow it led to some. Now a lot of people also utilize debt for health and wellbeing, for medical expenses, for healthcare for.

For alternative therapies that are not offered by, your insurance company or something like that, right? Maybe I know a lot of people, maybe growing a family using IVF, things like that you can utilize. Debt for those things, and that’s very common also for stabilizing during more challenging times if you are going through a funk in your business, or let’s say you lost your job, or you know something’s happening in the economy and you’re not able to pay for things.

Debt is a channel of abundance you can utilize during those times. And so maybe you’ve done that, right? Maybe that’s the time that you’ve utilized some debt and it allows you to survive and get by and pay that off later. Also another thing that a lot of people use it for is like desire and [00:10:00] lifestyle.

And maybe you wanna take that dream vacation. Maybe, I know a lot of people utilized it in college and maybe unknowingly, realized later on, oh, there’s actually a fee that goes along with this, but it allowed me to experience X, Y, or Z not just a given that from the consciousness that you’re in now and the place that you’re in with accumulated debt, that you’re going to be. Happy about what you did in the past, right? Sometimes you’re like, Jamie, I did not use it as a growth strategy, or I thought it was gonna be a growth strategy and it didn’t actually work out that way.

Or I used it for all these things that were not even important and now I’m realizing I wish I wouldn’t have done it, and here’s what I have to say. I covered, some of the reasons that we utilize debt, but now I wanna talk about a new perspective and new way of looking at it that you can hold and move into a much more mature place that’s going [00:11:00] to allow you to come to peace with it, right?

To come into acceptance with it, and ultimately to be able to release it. So step two, we really have to first understand why did we get into debt? And then number two. Reframing how we see it. So again, like I was saying, we may not be super happy about the reason we went into debt. We may say that wasn’t worth it.

In hindsight, looking back, I wouldn’t have done it from the place I’m in now, or it sucks having all of this that I have to pay off now, and I thought it would leave to X, Y, or Z, but maybe it didn’t. And maybe you’re feeling some regret now, it’s gonna be important that you shift out of regret and you do not hate on that debt.

And here is how I would recommend going about doing that. I would recommend forgiving your [00:12:00] past self wholeheartedly, completely forgiving the past you who decided to accumulate that debt. So that you no longer carry regret, because again, if you’re energetically hating on that debt and you’re regretting it, wishing it wasn’t there, if it feels really heavy, it’s gonna be hard to release it because you’re energetically attached to it, right?

You’re like holding onto it from. Some negative energies and it doesn’t feel good. It doesn’t feel neutral. So like I said, we wanna kind of like from our higher brain, take a much more mature approach of looking at it. And from that, the way that I like to see it is we gotta move up into our higher, more mature brain and go back to our past self, the one who decided to utilize it.

And what we wanna do is we wanna say, why did I do that? Right? Why from that consciousness. Not from the consciousness we have now, not with what we know now because [00:13:00] you can’t, you couldn’t know what you know now, right? You have much more wisdom. Time has evolved, things have passed. You have much more wisdom and knowledge now that you didn’t have then.

So you have to remember, I didn’t have that knowledge then. So go back to your past self who didn’t have that knowledge and remember. Why you used it, and also remember where you were at consciously, right? In consciousness, meaning who were you then? You were a younger version of you who were not as wise, you didn’t have the same lessons.

Right? But I think we tend to regret things and shame ourselves and get mad at our past selves because we expect our past selves to have the wisdom and consciousness that we have now. But you didn’t have it then back then you did the best. You knew how. You thought that was a good idea. You thought that was the way to go, right?

You made the best decision possible [00:14:00] back then, and you also believed in your future self, right? You were like, oh, my future self’s gonna have me. We’ll pay this off later. So you had belief in the version of you. Now. You had belief in your future self, which is the you now. So what we wanna do is just recognize that’s the place that we were in when we made that decision, and you have to forgive that past version of you.

You can’t expect the past version of you to know what you know now and to have the lessons and wisdom you’ve gained that over time. So what I would highly recommend is forgiving that past version of you and having some understanding and compassion for where they were coming from, given what they knew and reminding yourself I did the best I could.

Then I believed in my future self back then, so why not believe in myself now to be able to pay this off? ’cause my past self totally believed it would happen. [00:15:00] So I’m gonna believe it can happen. Right? And that’s where you wanna step into instead of having and holding so much regret and animosity towards it and heaviness.

’cause it’s gonna be hard to pay off from that place. And if you are someone who’s been struggling to, it’s probably because you’ve held on to a lot of emotion around this. Debt and we wanna let go of that. And I know society kind of teaches us debt is wrong, debt is bad. But that’s another thing to question because the truth is if 80% of Americans have debt, and that’s a channel of abundance, people are able to utilize to grow to, lean into their desires, to pay for things in advance, even to get through tough times.

Why is that bad? It’s not a bad thing. You were just exchanging money and capital in advance for a fee. That’s all it is, right? So let’s first forgive our past [00:16:00] self. For taking on the debt. If you’re holding onto anything or any regret or any kind of shame around it, we want to release the shame, and it’s also helpful to release the shame by recognizing the debt is normal.

80% of Americans have it. A lot of people utilize debt. There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s a channel of abundance. It doesn’t mean anything about you. Debt is not. Wrong. It’s just a decision. And from this place, you can be intentional and say, well, do I want to keep utilizing this as a channel of abundance?

And if not, if I feel complete with it, if I feel like, I’m in the place now where I wanna learn how to create a channel of abundance where money flows in and I’m only utilizing the cash that I have, I’m not taking cash in advance. Then that is amazing too. So it’s important to just be intentional with what do I want now?

And then the opportunity is to start becoming the [00:17:00] person who creates the money that you want to spend now and you don’t spend outside of what? You make, right? That’s becoming an energetic match to the person who no longer utilizes debt. At least you know for the things that you don’t wanna utilize it for.

Maybe you are strategic with it. Maybe you say, you know what? I wanna utilize it for my mortgage. I wanna utilize it for a car payment, but I don’t wanna use consumer debt anymore, right? You get to pick, or maybe you say, I just wanna pay off all of my student loan debt. And I wanna complete that. You can just be intentional with it.

But let’s come to a place where it’s much more neutral. It’s not this big dramatic thing, right? And it’s something that you can absolutely pay down. It’s something you no longer have to be mad at. And that if you believe in your ability to create money and to create abundance, and you believe the universe has your back and you believe that we live in an abundant universe where you can totally create that vision of [00:18:00] becoming debt free in the areas that you wanna be debt free, notice how that feels different than when you are panicked thinking, this is way over my head.

I can’t handle it. It’s too much. Then you don’t look at it. Right. Again, we’re stepping into a much more mature approach where you believe in your ability to create it just like your past self did, and step into a place of abundance around it, and start practicing some of the manifestation principles around releasing debt.

This is something I’ve helped. So many of my clients with, I’ve helped so many of my clients pay off debt that they felt was way over their head initially, and they ended up actually becoming someone who released it completely, right? But they didn’t do it from panic and hating it. They stepped into a place of emotional maturity, of neutrality, of total okayness around it, and then started creating from that [00:19:00] place a debt.

Payoff plan, and that’s the next step in order to release the debt, right? You may have to adjust your lifestyle a little bit. You might have to decide, I need to reduce my overhead, so I’m no longer utilizing it. I wanna reduce my overhead just a little bit so that I can start paying it off, or I wanna increase my income and put any bit of increase towards debt Payoff.

There’s so many ways that you can do it. But it’s really important that you make peace with that debt first so that you aren’t doing it from a place of panic. Because usually when we’re panicked, we don’t even really look at it. It feels way too overwhelming, right? And you wanna start looking at it from a neutral place where you can start planning it out, deciding what you wanna do with it, right?

There’s so many different options and ways of doing that. If you have. A lot of debt from a lot of different places. You could look into consolidating it. You could [00:20:00] also just strategically decide what you wanna pay off first. Maybe you start with just becoming someone who makes minimum payments all the time, right?

And starts really looking at your money. Really looking at. The debt that you’ve accumulated and start coming up with some ideas for paying it down. Now, one thing that I have found with everyone that I’ve coached through releasing debt is that. Typically, it works best when it’s not an all or nothing approach.

Meaning when people start creating a debt payoff plan that feels grounded and sustainable and something that they don’t feel like I have to pay this all off overnight, right? We get outta that diet mentality that all or nothing of, I either have to put everything towards this, or I have to put all of my money towards the debt, or I put nothing.

Right? It’s more of like, okay. Let’s come into approach where this just becomes part of your lifestyle, right? And you can [00:21:00] say, what if it’s not all or nothing? What if the way to pay this off is to do it consistently and sustainably, right? Where I put this portion towards it every single month, maybe you say, I know the way that I paid mine off was I looked at what was the highest interest rate.

Of my loans and I paid that one down first and just paid minimum payments on the others, and I just did it in a way that was slow over many, many years. For me, that’s what worked, that’s what was sustainable. I started thinking about, I. That approach as just, those payments. I looked at it the same way that I looked at like paying for rent or paying for a car payment.

It was just something that I paid every month, but I didn’t make it mean, oh my God, until this is paid off, I can’t go on vacation until this is paid off. I can’t put any money into an emergency fund until this is paid off. I can’t put any money into, my investment accounts or retirement accounts.

I didn’t do it from that place. [00:22:00] I did it from. What if I can hold all these things, what would it look like if I could consistently pay this off and do other things? That felt important too. Right? Which is living your life. Because another thing that I thought about was, I don’t know how many years that I have on this earth, right?

None of us actually know. Permanence is the only thing that we know, right? And so I was not willing to give up my entire life and be in frustration and panic and never do anything that I enjoy and not live into my values because I had, big loans out there. What I decided was how can I pay these off and live my life?

How can I pay these off in a way where it’s really no big deal? It’s fine. Even if I’m paying interest for a little bit longer, that’s fine. I wanna be able to live my life too, right? And that was what was in alignment for me. But you gotta check in with what’s in [00:23:00] alignment for you. Right. You can pay it all off at once.

You get to do this in whatever way works for you. But I think that all or nothing approach gets us sometimes into a state of really never actually paying it off. Right. It’s kinda like a diet cycle where people binge and restrict and binge and restrict and it’s just like. It’s not actually the healthiest, most sustainable way of, having radiant health.

And same with radiant health around your finances. If you are in a cycle of like total major restriction, only have to pay off this debt, can’t be happy until it’s paid off, can’t do anything, is probably gonna be much more challenging, much more dramatic. So I would say in terms of paying it down.

Think of what is sustainable and what allows you to still enjoy your life, right? Okay. The last piece that I wanna give you, and I think this might be one of the most important [00:24:00] pieces. Well, these all go together, so they’re all important. But I would say one thing that can really help in terms of releasing your debt is getting excited about. The vision of paying off your debt. Right. I think a lot of us don’t pay it off or don’t release it when we feel like it is this heavy burden have to, this thing we don’t really wanna be putting money into, but we have to and we gotta pay these payments and I hate putting money towards that.

 I want you to consider that there’s a way in which you could pay this off that feels exciting, that feels empowering, and that feels good, that each time you put money towards this, you see that you are closer to that version of you who is becoming debt free, right?

And so it might be helpful to create a vision of why do you want to be debt free? [00:25:00] Who is that version of you? Why is it lighting you up and exciting to come up with a debt payoff plan? Right? Because if you’re not excited about it, it’s gonna be really hard to do it, especially when there’s like 80,000 other things you could be putting your money towards that are way more exciting.

So is really important that if you want to do this, you’ve gotta create a vision for yourself and get. Cited and actually tap into the desire to pay it off, right? So that’s gonna be huge, and that is going to completely, completely, completely shift your energy around it. And so that’s what I want you to consider is who is that version of you?

Who has it paid off? Why is that exciting? Why do you actually want to be debt free? Like what is it gonna feel like not to have that and to tap into that, tap into that vision. In fact, I have a meditation that we [00:26:00] sell for like $19. And you will absolutely love this regardless, but I, it’s called becoming an energetic match to money, and it’s a meditation where you are able to create the vision for your future self and tap into that often.

I recommend actually utilizing this meditation at least once a week, and you can use it around money. And creating money. But you can also use that meditation to tap into the version of you who has no debt, and to get excited about that vision, to feel into that, to create that. And the more you tap into that vision, the easier it’s gonna be to pay it off.

Right? And the more exciting it’s gonna be. It’s gonna be an celebration every time you make a payment towards it. That’s another thing that I would absolutely recommend if this is part of your growth, is paying off your debt. Start celebrating every payment you put towards it. Even if it’s just minimum payment.

[00:27:00] Celebrate it, right? Celebrate yourself for paying it down, or even if you put an extra dollar towards it, beyond the minimum payment, celebrate yourself. That is gonna be huge and start looking at your progress. That’s another thing is think about like. Who do I wanna be? How long do I want this to take?

And thinking about your progress of, this is where I wanna be by the end of this year, and this is where I wanna be by the end of five years. Right? Start connecting with that future self. Get excited about that. Tap into that vision that way you’re gonna be excited to pay it off, and you’re not gonna think, oh, well I could do this or I could do this, right?

It’s like, oh well. I’m really excited for this vision, so let’s put it towards that. That’s huge as well. So that is my last recommendation and I am excited to hear how this goes for you. I’m excited to hear if this was helpful. So as always, come connect with me on Instagram at Jamie Berman underscore.

Would love to [00:28:00] hear from you. If you have found this helpful, one thing that I will ask from you that could take maybe two minutes is to. Subscribe to the podcast and leave a review of what’s been helpful, what you’re liking about this. It just really helps to expose this work to more people, and I think this work is just so, so important and there’s not enough.

Of it out there, so I want to spread this to as many people as possible, so if you would leave me a review, that would help with my mission, and I so appreciate it and I’m so excited for you to become debt free.