Healing OCD & Making a Courageous Career Pivot with Josh Alexander (Part 2)

[00:00:00] Jamie: Welcome back my friends to part two of the episode with Joshie, Josh Alexander, my husband, and we still have Millie here in our lap. We weren’t able to get to the full interview last week because there’s so much I wanted to cover with Josh.

[00:00:19] Jamie: So we are back this week. We’re gonna talk about, it’s kind of the part two to your career because Josh has, Made a pivot. I call it a courageous pivot in In his career over the past five years and i’m so inspired by it I know so many of you were following us. Um along our sweden journey as josh was Recently there writing for his album and recording and um, so Let’s dive in let’s talk about it How the heck did you go from being a?

[00:00:57] Jamie: You multi platinum [00:01:00] hit songwriter with many ASCAP awards, songs on the radio, the, you know, really connections. Like you finally freaking made it. You were doing that for, I guess it was 15 years at that point. Yeah. And 10. 

[00:01:17] Josh: Yeah, 

[00:01:18] Jamie: of course. Well, you kind of did, but as a professional, you were doing it for 15 years.

[00:01:25] Jamie: And, um, You decided there was something inside of you that said, maybe I want to do something else. And I remember that being very scary at the time. I went through this whole transition, this whole journey with you. So let’s talk about that. What came up within you that made you maybe start questioning if that’s what you wanted to do for the rest of your life?

[00:01:45] Jamie: Or Maybe it was a calling for something else. Yeah. 

[00:01:49] Josh: Yeah, absolutely Well, yeah So, you know I mean I think you you kind of got to understand it from the context of like I grew up from the time I was five or six Studying classical music. So that was really [00:02:00] my background and You know right around the time I got to be 10 11 12 pop music just flooded into my you know Everything I remember listening to, you know, dr Dre’s the chronic and then the next page listening to nirvana and then listening to mariah carey and then listening to voice to men It was just a Complete hodgepodge of just I thought incredible music, you know And that really kind of took over my life But my background really was in classical music and I was very serious about it.

[00:02:27] Josh: And I I you know Entered into competitions. I won competitions as a classical pianist and you know Ended up, you know getting into usc based on like a piano performance. This was 

[00:02:37] Jamie: all through your Like during elementary school and high school and all that. Yeah 

[00:02:42] Josh: elementary middle school. Okay. Yeah. Okay um Um, so that was like my background, you know, and, and pop music really took over and that just took off.

[00:02:50] Josh: And I met Billy and 

[00:02:51] Jamie: when you’re young, I feel like pop music is just, I mean, I don’t know. Yeah. It makes sense. Right? 

[00:02:56] Josh: Like, yeah, that’s right. And I, and I always kind of feel as it’s interesting. Like I was [00:03:00] the age of the artists I was writing with. So we were all like 20, you know, I was literally going through the same kind of things that they were going through.

[00:03:08] Josh: So when artists would walk in, you know, they were like, We were the same age and we could so relate on these things. Right. And so that was, I just felt like I was really tapped into the kind of stuff you talk about when you’re 22, all that kind of stuff. And it was very easy to, to tap into that. Um, and then, you know, I loved it and I just, it was my whole world.

[00:03:31] Josh: Um, and I, there got to be a time, you know, like you said, you know, and I had a number of hits with Billy and, and you know, lived out so many amazing dreams. And I started to feel this little longing, this little itch, if you will. And I started to be like, Hmm, you know, and it was like going into sessions. I was a little less excited to go into sessions.

[00:03:55] Josh: I started like on the weekend, you know, listening a ton to like [00:04:00] Contemporary classical music started to listen a ton to film music. Yep So really getting into composing and I started to like take classes. I ended up enrolling at an amazing class at UCLA on Composition and theory and harmony and I started like I just felt myself being like weirdly drawn like back to this stuff that I yeah I’m studying and I started like getting all these sound sounds and samples and you know I Writing like orchestral music, you know, like contemporary like not like, you know, yeah Bach and Beethoven necessarily like modern, you know, classical music And before I knew it I was just like oh my god, like I think this is what I want to do Yeah, but the big but with that is that from that Thought of I think I’m feeling this like this feels like what’s next to me to actually taking action on that There was a gap there totally and it’s for the reason you said I felt like I Mean my honest thought was like I’ve got to be stupid to walk away [00:05:00] from this 

[00:05:00] Jamie: totally 

[00:05:00] Josh: like I really you know I remember 

[00:05:02] Jamie: we would be on walks in our neighborhood and you were a light we would have these conversations Like yeah, totally 

[00:05:07] Josh: and I remember thinking like god, man, like I I’m so fortunate, like, I’ve worked so hard, but I’m in this place that I feel like my younger self would have just dreamed of.

[00:05:17] Josh: And like, This doesn’t make any sense like why would I stop doing this thing that i’m so so really really good at And that’s the 

[00:05:26] Jamie: other thing is like other people are like no way you’re amazing. I mean because you are One of a kind whenever it comes to writing melodies and stuff. Yeah 

[00:05:34] Josh: yeah, I I think I really you know had a had a level of of mastery in it and um, You know, we’re always getting better and there’s you know A lot of incredible songwriters, but I really did feel like I had a really high level of skill with it um And it just felt weird.

[00:05:51] Josh: It’s like why am I not going to do this anymore? Um, and I couldn’t really explain it, but I just felt this like love there was this, this [00:06:00] deep desire to do this other thing. And so that started percolating and you know, months went by, even years went by with this and I was still songwriting, but like gradually that sort of excitement about it was just It’s sort of starting to wane and in any free time I had, I was studying contemporary class music.

[00:06:18] Josh: I was studying, you know, film music. I was studying all this stuff, going back to my roots, you know, and around fast forward, right? Around the time the pandemic hit, all of a sudden. You couldn’t do any sessions. I mean, you could do remote stuff, but that wasn’t I don’t 

[00:06:38] Jamie: even feel like people were doing remote.

[00:06:39] Jamie: I mean, there were people doing like But that really wasn’t 

[00:06:42] Josh: for me and and I everything got still as we all know and I had nothing but time And I was for the first time in your life to the first time because you 

[00:06:52] Jamie: have been doing music acting. Yeah We’re oh, I mean you’ve been doing this since you were a kid.

[00:06:57] Josh: Yeah. Yeah, it’s true So for the first [00:07:00] time like everything got still and quiet and I actually could kind of more hear my own like inner Desire and voice and it became like so loud that it was like Oh shit, like I I can’t ignore this thing Like this is really like a like if you want to call it like a deep soul calling and if I ignore this It’s going to be at my own peril Yeah, like this is not good and and I feel like it’s so funny like earlier I think in our last episode I mentioned like I always like people would ask me like like I don’t know like what’s your like?

[00:07:30] Josh: Do you have any advice for someone, you know people starting out and whatever not and always be like Just go where the love is. Yeah, like if you go where the love is good things will happen And I kind of felt like a little bit of a hypocrite. I’m like here I am and i’m feeling such love for this Contemporary classical music and i’m not Going for it.

[00:07:46] Josh: Yeah out of out of fear, you know, I just felt like god like this is such a crazy thing just sort of Stop pivot from this thing. That’s working so well And I thought like I gotta walk the walk. I gotta actually do what [00:08:00] i’m telling people And Ironically, that was also around the time where like, you know, we talked about this off mic, but you know, I’d always had a little bit of like perfectionist syndrome and that’s also related to, you know, like OCD, right?

[00:08:16] Josh: Like obsessive compulsive. On some level it made me a great producer It made me a great musician because I was able to like super zone in like, you know Edit vocals for 10 hours a day hyper focus, you know I’ve never had an issue doing that 

[00:08:31] Jamie: and being detail oriented 

[00:08:33] Josh: incredibly talented, you know practicing a riff for two hours straight Whatever I needed to do, you know but the the shadow side of that is way Over obsessing over things and you know, not just music but but other things, you know in life that caused a lot of suffering And so I think ironically right around that time when I was like, oh damn I gotta go where the love is I gotta do this.

[00:08:55] Josh: Yeah The ocd which always was very manageable It [00:09:00] was just like very like in the background kind of like, you know, it was annoying but it was like not a big deal Got really bad and You know, I think it was a function of the world basically stopped for everyone and you know We had all this time in our hands and all those little like sort of obsessive kind of things got really really out of control Yeah, and I never had any support around it I was always just you know kind of on my own and it was fine But it got really really intense to the point where it became not really sustainable to Keep going the way I was going.

[00:09:32] Josh: Um, there was a lot of suffering and Both of those things were so weird because on one level there was this huge amount of love and creative energy For contemporary classical music that I was like i’m gonna do this yeah, and on the other hand there was this like really intense like suffering and Pain that I was going through because ocd was getting so bad and you were so inspirational to me jamie, you know being a coach and I was like very resistant to You Getting help.

[00:09:59] Josh: Yeah. ’cause I just [00:10:00] like, I don’t know if it’s like a guy thing or whatever, but I just, well, vulnerable. Yeah. Is vulnerable. You’re for, 

[00:10:04] Jamie: if you’ve never had support before, you’ve never talked about these things. Percent. It’s vulnerable. It’s 

[00:10:09] Josh: very vulnerable. And I, and I was like, oh my God. I mean, I’ve never, you know, been to a therapist and I was just like, it was just so scary.

[00:10:16] Josh: Yeah. But you were so helpful for me and you really found this incredible person that ended up being my coach that was able to. Who specializes in this and OCD and was able to like tell me like within a phone call like oh, yes It’s just OCD and it was like she was so normal about it and her she was so great Allie, 

[00:10:38] Jamie: Allie Grayman, Allie 

[00:10:39] Josh: Grayman.

[00:10:39] Josh: We’ll 

[00:10:39] Jamie: put a plug in we’ll put her info in the show notes Just because this is something you struggle with. She basically along with the work Josh did has been such a 

[00:10:51] Josh: No, Allie’s, Allie’s a gem of a human being. And so, so I think kind of genius at, at, um, what she teaches. Well, and, 

[00:10:59] Jamie: and [00:11:00] because, I mean, the other thing is like I even as a coach and I’ve studied, I have an extensive background in coaching and I studied spiritual psychology and we studied a lot of different Psychological approaches and ways of working with people and holding space and with Josh He was stumping me like I didn’t know normally I I can help Anyone work through things and you know, I wouldn’t normally totally like be able to hold space for you help you But what he was going through it didn’t I was just like the way that I normally coach is not Working.

[00:11:36] Jamie: Yeah, right and I felt stumped. So of course I’m the type of person when I can’t figure something out I’m like all in on studying and trying to figure it out. I’m like, are you going through a dark night of the soul? What is this? And I think we kind of together. Yeah, 

[00:11:50] Josh: and and I just want to say that’s I think one of the one of the Absolute brilliant gifts of you is that you I think in a similar way You won’t stop until you [00:12:00] get an answer.

[00:12:00] Josh: Yeah, and really you I mean Jamie was the person that found Ali and was able to be Like I think you might have I mean, I didn’t even know I had OCD Yeah, I know and you were like, I think you might have OCD. I was like what? I’m like what and then I started reading about like, oh my god, that’s what it is.

[00:12:14] Josh: And it was like the biggest relief in the world. And you know, you finally understand it’s like anything, you go, Oh my God, that’s what this is. And very quickly, you know, after working with Ali is starting to get better. Um, and ironically also around this time, I, and again, I think, you know, the pandemic, everything stopped.

[00:12:35] Josh: I got super into Back, you know a decade later or whatever was from like the first episode into meditation Yeah, and this was around the time I got super deep I was doing meditation retreats all over the country going for seven days at a time meditating for you know, silent Yeah, silent meditation. 

[00:12:52] Jamie: This was right before you had the OCD attack because I think that probably [00:13:00] You know how they say whenever you start meditating be careful because all the gunk rises and I am positive that had to do with you know, it’s like sometimes it has to get much worse before it gets better and I see this happening a lot is that stuff that’s been inside that’s just been annoying but like We’ve been able to manage it or push it down when we start going deep or set intentions for big, powerful things in our lives.

[00:13:29] Jamie: It’s like this stuff that’s in the way of that has to be cleared. 

[00:13:33] Josh: Pema has a great metaphor where she says, you know, most of us, you know, it’s like our lives or our inner conscience It’s like a swirling kind of whirlpool. 

[00:13:41] Jamie: Yeah, 

[00:13:41] Josh: we don’t know what’s in there, especially when we’re busy, right? Okay, 

[00:13:45] Jamie: we’re just swirling along with the junk, you know, and we’re used to it.

[00:13:48] Jamie: Yeah, it was 

[00:13:49] Josh: exactly It’s all swirling around and all of a sudden with meditation Everything stops. Yeah, and that was also the pandemic everything stops So all of a sudden all that swirling stops [00:14:00] and you’re able to look into clear water. Yeah, and you go. Oh shit Yeah, this is not what I want. This is actually not my highest self.

[00:14:09] Josh: And so all that to say I was having kind of big openings. I think through meditation and my spirituality You would turn me on to manifestation very soon after that You The pandemic happened OCD got really bad and at the same time I had discovered I’m gonna follow this Yeah love that I feel now from contemporary classical music Yeah, and all this was happening simultaneously and it was it was you know, the most challenging part of my life For none like yeah, like not even close and also I can look back now and it sounds like such a cliche It was one of the best times of my life and I know hands down You I wish what I went through I wouldn’t wish that as they say on my worst enemy and at the same time I can’t not see it ultimately as a blessing because from [00:15:00] that now I feel more aligned more at home in my being yeah more authentically myself than I think I ever could have imagined and Through all that work I did I was able to really go all in on Myself as an artist, and once I started doing it, it was like I made that first record while I was healing OCD and it was, it was tough.

[00:15:28] Josh: I mean, every day I’d get in there and it was like, the music was one of the things that kind of saved me. It was like, at least I had this album to make, you know, and I didn’t have any label. I didn’t know what, I just was, I’m making a record. I have my upright, put some mics on it and I’m making a fricking record.

[00:15:43] Josh: And, You know, ended up signing to, to a great label and, you know, we, we got that record out and, you know, it got heard by, you know, a good amount of people. You want to say 

[00:15:52] Jamie: the name of the record? 

[00:15:54] Josh: Uh, well, my first record was called Hymns for Troubled Times, which was ironic cause it was [00:16:00] a troubled time for me.

[00:16:01] Josh: It was a troubled time for the world and I kind of made it for myself, but I also started to see like, God, during the pandemic, yeah, this, this is probably going to have, um, a beneficial, um, Impact on maybe a couple people and it was great. I mean it ended really kind of connecting to a lot of people. Yeah But once I went all in on it, it was like that surge of electricity that I felt when I was 19 writing pop songs Was back.

[00:16:30] Josh: Mm hmm. And again, it’s like I just knew it. Yeah, I was like this is what I meant to be doing Yeah And I started following that and I like I couldn’t write fast enough like ideas just started pouring out Yeah, and you know if for the pop stuff, you know, I still loved it But it was waning a little bit and this it felt like like I literally felt like I was a kid again Yeah, and I just knew I’m like, this is what’s next.

[00:16:55] Josh: Yeah, and I think that You The healing of the [00:17:00] OCD allowed me the brain space because I what I didn’t realize like my whole life was that Those sort of obsessive things and it’s basically, you know, it’s sort of like anxiety where it’s like worry But it’s just about everything and it’s like taken to a really high level Yeah, so it’s like anything that could go wrong like OCD like you can sort of spiral out about it Yeah, and what I realized in working with it and healing it was that all of a sudden my brain was so free and so Uncluttered With all these ridiculous fears about things that might happen or could happen Yeah that I had so much more space and I started putting all that into music right and I would get into the studio and I Would just be clear right?

[00:17:38] Josh: And so not only was I doing something I loved but my brain was free of clutter And I just felt like I was able to create at a speed that I’ve never done before Yeah, and now like when I get in there, I feel like actually more productive and Tapped in than I’ve ever felt in my life because [00:18:00] not only am I doing some I love which I love songwriting You know, I still have a love for song.

[00:18:03] Josh: Yeah, but I Love what I’m doing now, but I’m also so much freer in my creativity Yeah, right because I address this kind of thorn in my side that was robbing me of that Stillness for so long. Yeah, 

[00:18:19] Jamie: incredible. 

[00:18:20] Josh: Yeah. 

[00:18:20] Jamie: Yeah, and it was incredible to witness that journey because you talk about it now And it’s like it feels like a small And that’s small but yeah, it was an Undertaking it was a huge thing.

[00:18:34] Jamie: I’d never seen Josh go through anything like that I felt like he wasn’t even himself anymore and it was really challenging and you had so much courage and So much dedication to healing it. I mean, I’ve never seen someone that dedicated to healing something like it was incredible So what I just just so we can touch on it a little bit because I feel like maybe there [00:19:00] is someone out there That’s struggling with ocd that also doesn’t realize it because I always thought ocd was like Oh, the people with ocd clean a lot, which is not josh That’s not how his manifest So, excuse me.

[00:19:13] Jamie: No. Okay. No, but like, I thought it was that, or I thought it was like patterns or they did rituals, so like that’s why we couldn’t see it. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So how, tell me a little bit more about ocd. Listen, I’m 

[00:19:24] Josh: not, I don’t want to come on and act as if I’m an expert. You know, I had it and, you know, I, I know what works for me and, and again, so I don’t wanna speak from that place.

[00:19:34] Josh: But I will say I have a very, I think, a deep understanding of it now on the other side. Yeah. And what, what I would say is. Basically you can have OCD about anything and it’s just sort of like anxiety, but taken to a really high level. And so you can have any sort of theme. So if we, you know, you hear about it in popular culture a lot around like obsessive, like, you know, washing your hands, my head that a little bit, you know, health 

[00:19:59] Jamie: [00:20:00] things.

[00:20:00] Jamie: Oh, do I have cancer? What do I, what is it? Yeah. 

[00:20:02] Josh: Cleanliness feeling like, you know, germs. That’s, that’s one theme. You can have it around, um, You know people have there’s a lot of like relationship OCD where people are constantly worried their partner’s gonna leave them or they’re constantly worried that they’re gonna get cheated out or even that they’re gonna Um, you know, they’re gonna leave their partner.

[00:20:20] Josh: It’s just it’s just sort of these nightmare scenarios. Yeah Um, or you know, what if I get in my car and I I drive off the road, you know It’s like something it’s just anything that’s sort of like that. But as opposed to You know most of us where we have these any thoughts and we have what we have 60, 000 thoughts a day or something like that And most of us we have these thoughts they come in and we just go whatever, you know We’re kind of yeah like that.

[00:20:41] Josh: So people with OCD they sort of spin out about it And then they start to go. Oh my god, like and they start to like go down that road and they tend to have very vivid Imaginations and they start to like yeah. Yeah, and all these things are honestly amazing Things for creativity and so you actually do find it’s interesting [00:21:00] that people in the creative arts I don’t want to throw out any numbers I don’t know if it’s more than other things but I know a lot of people in the creativity that have that sort of Obsessive slightly ocd thing.

[00:21:10] Josh: Yeah, and I think there’s an imaginative nature. Um, to it To people that have it that actually really suits arts, but the shadow side is that it can drive you nuts. So yes, 

[00:21:21] Jamie: and it can be about things that really like your conscious mind knows that you don’t need to worry about, but it can’t stop. Right. 

[00:21:27] Josh: Of course.

[00:21:28] Josh: And even, you know, for some people it manifests like, you know, you’ve seen this sometimes in movies where These ridiculous things where, um, and not ridiculous when you’re going through it, obviously, but you know, illogical sort of magical thinking, the idea, you know, the classic thing, you know, you shouldn’t step on a line on a street corner.

[00:21:43] Josh: You’re going to get bad luck. People with OCD tend to take that and then they take it really far. So you could see someone that literally will not step on cracks in the pavement because they really think something bad is going to happen to them. So it’s all this stuff and it can be very ordinary too.

[00:21:58] Josh: Like just thinking [00:22:00] that, you know, um, I mean, there’s a million. Oh, totally anything. Did I 

[00:22:04] Jamie: send an email? And I don’t remember, right? That was one thing that you used to like. 

[00:22:09] Josh: Yeah. I mean, it’s anything and everything, you know? Um, and I think it manifests, it manifested. Yeah. I think it manifests differently for everyone.

[00:22:17] Josh: But yeah, but the point is it’s, it’s not real. Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the biggest thing, and it’s, it’s interesting because it goes back to kind of to our first conversation from the other day where it’s like, What you focus on grows. Yeah so if you’re focused on How is this for me if you’re focused on trying to think of the best case scenario?

[00:22:40] Josh: that’s Tends to be what you see And I think in some really interesting level, I don’t know if we’ve even talked about this like that Having ocd is like the ultimate test case In what you focus on grows totally when you’re thinking all those like scary [00:23:00] Anxiety prone thoughts Even if you don’t literally bring them into your life, you’re living a reality in which they are a part of your life Because you’re experiencing them in your subconscious, right?

[00:23:12] Josh: Internally, right? Even if nothing ever happens, right? You know, you don’t get well It’s just like 

[00:23:16] Jamie: that’s what I talk about worry is like the opposite of conscious manifestation because you’re literally focusing on what you don’t want And it’s the same thing because ocd is like worry on You Steroids or something.

[00:23:28] Jamie: Exactly. 

[00:23:28] Josh: Exactly. So it was like I had this masterclass in that you get more of what you focus on. Yeah. And so here I was, you know, I was, I was no fault of my own. I didn’t understand it, but I was focusing on all these like, Oh man, like scary things. And that’s what I was experiencing in my reality. Yeah.

[00:23:45] Josh: Not literally, right. But in my life, in my consciousness. And the moment I understood it, Moment through working with an incredible coach through doing my own work through meditation through spirituality through all that the moment I started [00:24:00] Realizing that I could flip that. Yeah, and just like I could think of all these worst case scenarios I could think of all these best case scenarios So I remember like going on walks Where I literally felt like every thought that was coming in with some ridiculous kind of nightmare and I just flipped it I really felt like I was like a flipper.

[00:24:20] Josh: Not of houses, but of thoughts. Right? I was a house flipper for thoughts and every single thought that would come in, Oh, it’s like, nope, it’s going to be great. Oh, what if it, no, it’s going to be amazing. Oh God, what if it, no, it’s going to be good. It was just constant. And I just, you know, did this hour after hour, day after day, month after month.

[00:24:40] Josh: And before I knew it, you know, you fast forward a year, two years. It was like it just dawned on me one day, I think we were on a walk or something, and I was like, I was like, I don’t have any thoughts in my head. 

[00:24:52] Jamie: Oh my god, yeah. It was like, 

[00:24:55] Josh: It was just, Space. Yeah. And I don’t [00:25:00] know if I’d ever, Had that in my entire life.

[00:25:03] Josh: Wow. I’ve always had a very active mind thoughts ideas imagination and for the first time through all that training and sort of Re educating myself and all that sort of reprogramming your brain literally programming a hundred percent Doing those things, doing meditation, doing all this stuff, focusing on something I love.

[00:25:23] Josh: And the 

[00:25:23] Jamie: disregarding too. You get a lot of that. 

[00:25:26] Josh: Huge. Yeah. So, so one approach is to sort of, you know, flip the thought, you know, think of something else. Another approach like that Ali is, is really amazing at is just simply disregarding it. And she talks about it as if it’s like, um, you know, imagine you’re in an apartment and right next door to you is another apartment with very paper thin walls.

[00:25:45] Josh: And let’s say there’s a parrot. Yeah. In the other room and the parrot’s saying all kinds of crazy stuff like You’re an idiot You’re a moron, you know all this kind of stuff, right? Eventually, like if you wanted to keep your sanity, you just ignore it. Yeah, like this this [00:26:00] parrot’s ridiculous It’s just trained and heard someone say I don’t care what this parrot says.

[00:26:03] Josh: Yeah, I don’t who would care Yeah, and that’s what you have to be like With ocd so it’s even like You know, it can also happen in like, you know, if you’re like, let’s say you’re writing a paper Yeah, and you have this sort of obsessive feeling you have to keep rereading the paper. You’re afraid you made a typo It’s really wild the way it manifests.

[00:26:22] Josh: Yeah, you have to keep rereading. Oh god, you know, it’s a big paper What if I made a type of you keep rereading? So it’s like it’s not just like rereading it two times It’s like rereading it 10 times. Yeah. Well, 

[00:26:30] Jamie: I remember right so 

[00:26:33] Josh: What you start to have to do is you have to realize that voice that’s saying I need to reread it 15th time You got to think of it as like that parrot.

[00:26:40] Josh: Yeah, you just disregard it. 

[00:26:41] Jamie: Yeah, 

[00:26:42] Josh: you just don’t want you feel the 

[00:26:43] Jamie: anxiety too That’s the other part, right? You 

[00:26:45] Josh: have to be okay with it feeling like It’s not okay. Yeah And you have to be okay with it feeling like this feels really uncomfortable. Yeah and I think also to tie into I think a bit like [00:27:00] manifestation I see so many parallels The way you heal that with You Like consciously creating the life that you dream of.

[00:27:09] Josh: Yeah. Because so often as you know better than anybody teaching this, which you’re so brilliant at, like you are not seeing in reality what you’re wanting to create. And so on some level, just like with OCD, you disregard the thoughts you don’t want or you don’t care to think about. I think with manifestation on some level, you have to disregard the present reality.

[00:27:32] Josh: You’re seeing In favor of the vision you’re holding. Yeah, so here you are You know where you want to go, you know what you want to create You’re so inspired to do that and what you see is not that So on some level just like a thought that comes in that you don’t care to think about you have to literally disregard What is visually in front of you?

[00:27:53] Josh: Hold the vision in your mind. Yeah, until you see that out pictured in 3d reality. Yeah, [00:28:00] and So for me it was like and I talked about this with with my coach was I was like, it’s such an amazing training For I feel like consciously creating and manifesting and creating the life you you you want because You literally become kind of like a jedi master in like, you know Disregarding the things you don’t want and focusing on the things you do.

[00:28:22] Josh: Yeah And I feel like correct me if i’m wrong like that’s kind of what you do when you manifest a hundred 

[00:28:28] Jamie: percent totally a hundred percent and I think through you healing ocd and me witnessing that and learning how That OCD brain works. It’s like there’s so many parallels. I mean, it’s OCD is just a little bit.

[00:28:42] Jamie: It’s like it’s on overdrive, but I think we all have that to some extent where we worry about things that it’s just, it’s, it’s repetitive. It’s habitual, you know, I know a lot of my clients, you know, When they initially come in, tend to worry about money, have that of [00:29:00] visualizing what the worst case scenario, what if I run out of money, what if it doesn’t work, all of that kind of stuff, and it’s been really a gift to me, too, of witnessing you go through this because it’s taught me so much about how you really can reprogram the brain, you know, and you can really disregard those things.

[00:29:20] Jamie: And you can call them out as. These are habitual thoughts and I’m going to practice, I’m going to practice letting them go, you know, and it’s not easy to do. It takes work. It takes effort. It takes consciousness, but it absolutely can be done you’re a total testament to that, that you And 

[00:29:41] Josh: I think that was the thing that that made it the hardest for me was that I before this Before you know, oh CD thing got really bad. Like I was such a positive person So that made it even harder for me because it was like this is so not me Yeah, thinking of all these kind of ridiculous nightmare scenarios.

[00:29:56] Josh: Like it just felt so like to put it funny [00:30:00] off brand Yeah, like wasn’t me. Yeah, what the hell’s going on? So it made it even more I think upsetting for me Yeah, and so I think ultimately It taught me just like you said Jane like the pliability of our mind the plastic nature of it It can bend. Okay, people talk about you know Neural pathways you literally can create new neural pathways and like man I can’t even articulate like to go from thinking, you know for that period in the beginning pandemic everything was wrong to focusing on how Everything was here to teach me something.

[00:30:35] Josh: Yeah, everything was working for my good You You know the universe is actually friendly. Yeah, and is is, you know Conspiring on my behalf to the degree that I can believe in it myself, you know There is a real partnership going on there And that there is something and we don’t have to get necessarily into the mechanics of it, you know Because I think everyone thinks about it differently, but [00:31:00] that there is something that really does respond To our belief.

[00:31:05] Josh: Yeah and to our thinking and to our Our unconscious knowing and it tends to out picture what we focus on most in reality and that You know, it’s hard to understand it, but there seems to be this thing that really does exist that tends to Create what we believe. Yeah, and so I think Yeah, it really taught me how you can recreate those neural pathways and By living affirmatively and actually just, I mean, if you really like distill it for me, it’s just focus on what you want and don’t focus on what you don’t.

[00:31:41] Josh: Yeah, that’s it. Yeah. You know? So it’s like, Oh my God, I’m running out of my life. Okay. Now there’s realities. You got to pay your bills. You got these, you have, you can’t no one’s thing. Like you overlooked that of course, but as much as you can focus on what you want and don’t focus on what [00:32:00] you don’t. Yeah.

[00:32:01] Josh: Yeah. That, I mean, that’s an obvious oversimplification, but I think on some level that’s really what I’ve learned from all that. 

[00:32:10] Jamie: So I think I know the answer to this, but do you feel like going through that journey has helped you with your manifestation process and your ability to create now? Oh my 

[00:32:23] Josh: God.

[00:32:24] Josh: I mean, Yeah. Absolutely. 100 percent I mean first of all my mind is more still than it’s ever been. Yeah, so I actually have space to focus on What I want to create. Yeah, I’ve seen you know, it’s funny like I had an amazing teacher named Adi Ashanti He was this incredible meditation teacher and he used to say and it really kind of like weirded me out when he said it But now I like I see it so clearly and he said, you know, he said It’s all here and It’s each of our job To choose what we want to create Everything [00:33:00] is here and you can go to the height of joy and bliss or you can go to the height of Depression and anger and resentment and it’s all here.

[00:33:12] Josh: Yeah, it’s all available And on some level when you get still enough You can see those things in yourself. You see all the potentialities. Yeah And you realize it’s a choice. 

[00:33:26] Jamie: Yeah 

[00:33:27] Josh: And that was kind of what it taught me and he was talking about it from a meditation spiritual context But it was exactly the insight I had going through it.

[00:33:35] Josh: It was like What do you want? And of course like we all come in with different, you know Curriculum and life situations and man I’ve had it pretty great and the background that I’ve had and the stability I had growing up like is an absolute blessing and a privilege but I will say you know that that period for me was deeply intense [00:34:00] and I really did see like it’s like It really comes down to what do you want?

[00:34:08] Josh: What do you want to focus on? Yeah, what do you want to create? Yeah And at this point in my life, I just don’t have a lot of time for focusing on anything. I don’t want to create That’s it. Yeah 

[00:34:21] Jamie: Yeah 

[00:34:22] Josh: Wow, that’s kind of as real as it gets.