Overcoming Feeling Rejected in Business, Coaching Session with Vanessa

Jamie Berman: [00:00:00] All right, so I have Vanessa with me who has been… Tune in to my podcast in the community for a little bit of time, and I’m so excited to get to coach you. This is our first time meeting, and I told Vanessa she can get coaching on anything she wants. So Vanessa, what would you like some coaching on? 

Vanessa: Um, so I…

Vanessa: I’ve been a scientist for 25 years and I had, um, this incredible burnout. It was quite insidious at first. And then I, um, healed myself and did what I need to do. And people said, Oh, can we, can you help me? And so it ended up one after another being, um, Me being a coach and mentor to women who are burnt out in the science field and medical field.

Vanessa: But it is kind of interesting as how I started as a response to someone asking me that, you know, could you do this for us? And so now I’m going, okay, you know, I would love to [00:01:00] expand my business. So I, you know, I’ve got quite a few clients. I’m still, you know, I’m earning, um, sort of, um, you sort of the five figures.

Vanessa: Um, but then it’s not quite, um, sort of the salary I’m used to with, uh, with, uh, that I had in science after 25 years, you can imagine. So, um, I. I’m now not actually clear on how to proceed forward to expand my business in a sense, but also I find that there are, um, sort of big money blocks coming up for me at the moment where, um, where I’m, I’m, um, I’m doing my best to put myself, I’m trying to use the proper language for myself.

Vanessa: Um, I’m, I’m doing my best to really serve as many women as possible in that sense. Um, but I don’t find that my messaging is getting out to people. There’s sort of a [00:02:00] lackluster in the community that I engage with. And it’s not, it’s. It’s not damage, it’s something that I’m having a block with and also just with, um, with Yeah, just this is expanding that part and I find that there is a huge resistance in terms of, I think, with a lot of us women, um, sort of money, um, how do we, how we do, we charge for coaching, um, and when we do get rejected, do we say, is it because of me or is it because, um, of, um, yeah, I’m not, am I not putting the word out enough?

Vanessa: That sort of stuff. So I would love to start from there. I know it’s really broad, but, um, um, yeah, I would love to love have some of your reflections and insights. 

Jamie Berman: Absolutely. I, that’s great. Fantastic. So much awareness around what’s going on for you. So, okay, let’s dive into the money [00:03:00] blocks because I do think that Makes a huge difference and sometimes we say how can I expand and there can be a strategy or a way but if we have these money blocks where if we’re putting ourselves out there and then we hear a no and we feel rejection and We make it mean something about us Right.

Jamie Berman: It’s going to be hard to expand from that place. So I think the first step is cleaning that up, and it’s going to be a lot easier to expand if you don’t have those, that same resistance around money. Vanessa, are you there? Oh, sorry. Okay. Sorry, it went up for a second. But, so, how does that sound? Oh, sorry.

Jamie Berman: Give me one second. Something’s going on. Sorry. I’m going to pause.

Jamie Berman: Are you there? Are you there? Yep, I’m there. 

Vanessa: Okay. Okay. Your video is a bit pixel y. [00:04:00] Yeah, I 

don’t 

Jamie Berman: know why it’s going in and out a little bit. Um, could you hear me the whole time? Yes. Okay. Alright. Let me see. I don’t know why it’s doing that. Okay. So. Let me just start over that piece, because I think it’s still recording.

Jamie Berman: It’s just that it might get a little pixel y, because I saw a little sign that says it’s actually being recorded in high quality. So even if maybe we can’t see each other, we’ll just try to continue. And my producer will cut this piece out. Yeah, what I was saying is I think the most important piece to start with and address is going to be the money piece because we can have a strategy for expanding or a way of, you know, that we want to grow our business or get more clients.

Jamie Berman: But if we still have these like money thoughts and money, I call it money drama. In the way it’s going to get in the way of us really being able to take action and expand so Let’s start with that How does that sound of like? Clearing up [00:05:00] any of the beliefs that you have about money that are getting in the way of the expansion.

Jamie Berman: Does that sound good? Yeah 

Vanessa: That would be really good. 

Jamie Berman: Okay. Yeah. So you talked about the rejection piece, right? And like, if somebody says, what… So I want to hear a little bit more about that and what happens, what comes up for you and what you’re, you said, then I start to question like, is it me or is it the program?

Jamie Berman: So tell me a little bit about, do you have like a specific situation where something like that has happened and it’s made you question 

Vanessa: things? Um, yeah, there’s a couple of different ones, but basically like, I just feel like the clients I have are incredible. So they will, they will come to me and they’re like, I just want to work with you.

Vanessa: I don’t want to, I don’t want a one on one call. I’m just going to work with you. Um, how do you go about it? So that’s kind of, you know, what I’m used to. And then, you know, I know, right. I’m so blessed. Yeah. Um, but, [00:06:00] but then you, you’re just going, okay, you know, um, that there has to be some consistency in the business.

Vanessa: So you do what you’re, you’re told by your business mentors and stuff like that to, you know, do the launch and do the marketing stuff. Sure. And then you do the one on one strategy session. So people turn up and say, if they want to work with you and, uh, you know, I kind of follow the script or I don’t follow the script.

Vanessa: Yeah. And at the end of the day, at the end of the time, what happens is like, you know, do you want to work with me and, um, you know, this is how, what I can help you with. And I know I can help them with, cause I have clients I’ve already done. And um, so, you know, I’m really confident on that score and, um, and they’re like, okay, you’re great.

Vanessa: You know, uh, how much is it? And then I tell them the price, which is what I’m currently working with my other clients. I know people can pay it. Um, and, um, they go, Oh, uh, it’s, it’s too much. It’s too expensive. I don’t want to, I don’t want to do that. Um, and then, and then the [00:07:00] excuses start coming up as in, you know, you’re not offering enough.

Vanessa: Um. Other things about, I know it’s their story, but you just feel like, you know, there’s a, I’m being shown two very different types of clients and it’s actually, interestingly enough, they come in batches. So, um, I’ve had like, you know, um, 10 strategy calls and, um, each of them are saying the same thing. So I’m just thinking, am I.

Vanessa: Attracting the wrong person. People. Not wrong. Am I attracting not my, my tribe? Yeah. Or is there something I’m projecting Yeah. That is going out into, into the world at the moment. And I think it’s all, all, all me. . It’s not them. They’re, they’re beautiful people and, and perfect in every way. We just need to support them.

Vanessa: Um, but. Yeah, so that’s kind of so that’s coming that that kind of is a consistent message or they’ll say yeah We want to work with you. This sounds amazing. And then 24 hours later. I know this is normal, [00:08:00] but you know, I’m working to myself They go on Yeah, something’s happened at home and then they kind of don’t ever talk to you ever again.

Vanessa: So And, and, you know, I’m just, and that’s really put me into quite a stuck place in the sense that, um, I also, I’m not very clear on, you know, it’s my messaging, right? Am I, am I pulling my heart out to people? Um, so that’s kind of, and then I go into, um, I go into seclusion where I don’t want to come out of my little shell and I don’t.

Vanessa: I don’t engage. 

Jamie Berman: Okay. Yeah. Then you pull back conceal. Yeah, totally. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I’m curious what, you have two different clients. You have the clients that just say, I’m all on board. Why do you think they’re all on board and why do you think the other ones are maybe a little more hesitant? Um, 

Vanessa: I think the ones all on board really connected with me and for some.[00:09:00] 

Vanessa: It, they, they’ve come to, they’ve, we’ve connected simply because we connected, not because of, I didn’t purposely put out something to, um, to say, Hey, you know, do one on ones with me. I basically just put out some, uh, uh, uh, something from the heart and, um, I’ve, I’ve done a lot of, um, seminars and talk shows as well.

Vanessa: Um, and, and, um, And so they see me then and they kind of go, Oh, you know, I really connect with you. Um, and then they come in and the ones that are the other side are the ones that I brought into also Polish, partially summits, but maybe from master classes and stuff that I’ve held. And, um, and, and they, they, they come in from there, which is great, beautiful.

Vanessa: Uh, but for some reason, um, yeah, they. I don’t know. It’s [00:10:00] just, I’m not sure why it’s happening at the moment. It’s definitely trying to teach me something. So I’m hoping. 

Jamie Berman: Yeah. And that’s why I think it’s helpful to sometimes unpack like, Oh, what are the differences between the two? So the two different clients, do they come from different places or they come from similar places?

Jamie Berman: It’s just that some of them feel more connected to you and other ones you don’t think do. Yeah. Okay. So they’re coming from the same places. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 

Vanessa: Yeah. So they come from the same sort of, um, you know, sort of the, the, they’re quite a bit burnt out. They don’t know where to move from there and, you know, how to carry on with, with, with their life, so to speak.

Vanessa: So, which is fair enough. Yeah. 

Jamie Berman: And not only are they coming from the same place in terms of like what they’re going through, but are they coming through the same funnels?

Vanessa: Um,[00:11:00] 

Vanessa: they, they are mainly coming through the same funnel because I’ve only got one way in which I, um, I advertise myself to the world, which is through the summits, um, moment. So, and then through that, that email group, then, um, what I do is I do masterclasses to serve them. And then, um, you know, say there’s these one, one things that I do with people.

Vanessa: Um, uh, coaching and mentoring and, you know, would you like to join me? So I think, and so that’s, yeah. So I would say they’re coming from the same funnel cause that’s really about the only funnel I have at the moment. 

Jamie Berman: Super good to know, right? That’s really helpful. So what’s happening is they’re coming from the same funnel, but what you’re saying is maybe my messaging isn’t right.

Jamie Berman: Or maybe there’s something that I didn’t do or say right. But there’s some people who come from that same funnel and they’re like a heck yes. When can I start? Let’s go. So it’s probably not that. It’s probably more so [00:12:00] that this is just how it works, right? That we have sales calls and sometimes there are yes and sometimes there are no.

Jamie Berman: And sometimes we have consecutive, oh, a bunch of people just said yes. And then sometimes, oh shoot, there were a couple in a row that said no. Yeah. So the thing is that what’s happening is when you get no’s, a couple of no’s consecutively, you’re making it mean something about you and then you retreat and go hide, right?

Jamie Berman: Which allows you not to get more of those yeses that are out there. Correct. Yeah. Right? So that’s what I would take a look at is what do you make a no mean? Or consecutive no’s. What do you make that mean?

Jamie Berman: I, 

Vanessa: I think, you know, we’ve just, you know, unpacking it, it was when, I keep [00:13:00] going back to this. It’s quite weird. Um, so my, my mom had cancer when I was seven and then she passed away when I was 13. So, um, I always kind of didn’t quite have the childhood I wanted, I guess, um, because I had to look after her.

Vanessa: And then when she died, I kind of felt really rejected by, by, by the whole situation. And also, each time I… Earn some money, um, as a child, um, that money get taken away from both either her or my father. Um, and so, and it’s almost like, you know, you’re not good enough to hold that money. We’ll do it for you.

Vanessa: So the thing, um, or you’re forced to put it in the bank and not really spend it on yourself. So I think that all kind of accumulates to some form of beard rejection, money thing that’s happening in my body. And I’m, I’ve been trying to sort of move it, but I don’t know. You know, how, how to move it for my business, if you 

Jamie Berman: know what I mean.

Jamie Berman: Yes. Oh my gosh, that makes so [00:14:00] much sense, right? Because like, it’s like we have these inner children inside of us that little things in business that can seem like, oh, it’s a little thing I got to know, but it triggers something that feels so much heavier. Then that why because we have this like inner child that hasn’t been healed inside So this is actually the most beautiful opportunity to be with that part of you that feels rejected And heal that part, because what’s really great is even something that happened when we were 10 years old, 15 years old, doesn’t matter.

Jamie Berman: We can actually heal it now. So what if this is only an opportunity to deepen in your relationship with yourself? And it’s almost like the more knows you get, the better. Because it’s an opportunity to start loving that place inside that hurts. 

Vanessa: Mm. Yep, that’s a good, that’s a good way [00:15:00] of putting it. 

Jamie Berman: Yeah.

Jamie Berman: What would be different if that was the angle that you held any no with? Um, 

Vanessa: it’s quite funny because I can, I can feel it sort of here. Um, so I guess that’s the heart chakra there. Um, it would just feel more in, in the flow. So, um, and not so much judgment on myself because, um, I think in the end, you know, I, I just feel like, you know, my message isn’t clear on, on what I serve and who I serve, but ultimately in the end, um, my clients who are with me were quite clear, knew what I was doing.

Vanessa: So I can’t be that bad. 

Jamie Berman: Yes. It’s not your messaging. Otherwise you wouldn’t have clients, right? You do have clients that are landing and completely connecting to your messaging. So helpful to know it’s not [00:16:00] that if it were that you wouldn’t be signing clients that are coming in saying yes right away, creating incredible results.

Jamie Berman: So anytime your brain offers that it’s just like, it’s not that. And this is an opportunity to be with myself. And like, it’s almost like what I would ask yourself is, what did that younger me who felt rejected need to hear? What do I wish she heard? 

Vanessa: Yeah,

Vanessa: I think she, she wish she heard that, um, you’re enough. And how, how you want to run in the world. And the experiences you’re having. So, you know, you could be, you want to set up business. You want to try what it feels like, what, cause I think my, my inner child, because at seven, she didn’t have many [00:17:00] experiences that she would have normally had as a seven year old, you know, they go out and play, they do go to different parties, they do all kinds of crazy stuff for school camps, you know, all this sort of stuff, but then, you know, being in an Asian family and also be having to look after my mom, you kind of get boxed in.

Vanessa: Into, um, this expectation and that expectation just tells you that you’re, you’re, you’re not enough. You need to work harder at that expectation. Um, and so, yeah, I think she, she needs to know that she’s enough. Um, and that she doesn’t need to, she doesn’t need to force any, anything and just to be who she is.

Vanessa: And he, and the people that she will attract as part of her tribe doesn’t mean matter if they’re clients. Or they are friends, you know, just, just people you hang out with, is that they are your natural ones and, um, not everyone’s going to be on your side, not, you know, not [00:18:00] in the bad way. Yeah. You know.

Vanessa: Totally. 

Jamie Berman: Because what’s happening is there’s just a natural thing happening in your business. This happens. Some people connect. Some people don’t. But whenever you have this unhealed kind of wound, it triggers something and it makes us think something that’s not true, right? That, Oh, there’s, you know, Oh, my messaging is enough for this, but that’s not true.

Jamie Berman: This is actually just normal in business to have some yeses, have some no’s. So I have a practice that I learned from two of my teachers when I studied spiritual psychology, Ron and Mary Holnick, and this practice changed my life. It’s called compassionate self forgiveness. And what you do is you basically put your hand on your heart.

Jamie Berman: Anytime you’re feeling triggered in that way, if you get a no, and you’re feeling that sense in your body, you go in and you talk to that younger you and I, you say, I forgive myself for buying into the misbelief that I’m not enough. Forgive myself for buying into the [00:19:00] misbelief that my messaging isn’t enough or that I’m not doing enough or I’m not doing it right.

Jamie Berman: And then you, you really go into really releasing that and letting yourself forgive yourself for buying into that misbelief that you bought into when you were very young. And then you state the truth is. The people that connect with me, connect with me. And there’s going to be people that don’t, but it doesn’t mean anything.

Jamie Berman: It’s not a bad thing. It’s actually good because I end up creating the most aligned clients this way. I don’t want people who aren’t connected to say yes, because they’re probably not going to get the best results, and it’s not going to be as much fun, right? Exactly. Like, 

Vanessa: um, you know, I had one client that she…

Vanessa: I, yeah, just, it just felt a little bit slightly off and, and, um, you know, not, not, nothing though. She’s a beautiful woman. Absolutely gorgeous. But, um, yeah. But then in the middle, after six, six months, I just went, she just went to me, you know, um, it’s work, like she had fantastic results and she started making all [00:20:00] excuses about different things.

Vanessa: And I knew it in, in my heart that, yeah, from the start, she wasn’t a great, like a great fit. So, um, but yet I still pushed it and, uh, that required far more energy than I was expecting. 

Jamie Berman: Totally, it really does. So it’s almost like what if for everyone who says no, it’s just a celebration of like, okay, they just weren’t aligned and they knew it and I knew it and it wasn’t going to be the best fit.

Jamie Berman: Right? Not that, of course, if they’re in fear, it’s a different thing. Sometimes, like, if someone’s like, I really want to do this, but I’m scared of spending the money, of course, I’ll work through them with things. But if they’re just giving a bunch of excuses, I’m not gonna sit there and coach them through every one and try to force them to work with me if it’s not aligned.

Jamie Berman: Yeah, I 

Vanessa: get that now. Yeah, having, having done a lot, a few business courses, not being a scientist, you know, you end up going, Oh, I do this business course, I do that business course. And what’s really, um, been [00:21:00] very triggering for me is almost like you’re doing it wrong. You should be closing the sale, um, then, and I’m like, why?

Vanessa: I don’t want someone to do that to me. That’s disgusting. 

Jamie Berman: Totally a hundred percent. I have a book recommendation if you’re open to it. This book changed my life when it came to selling because I, whenever I started doing strategy calls like you’re doing. I had 40 no’s before I got a yes. I had 40 consults that said no to me before I, and of course I wanted to give up and make it mean I’m terrible at selling.

Jamie Berman: I’m awful at this. I attract the wrong people. I’m doing something wrong. Of course I wanted to, but what I realized is with every single one, Oh my gosh, I learned so much. I learned how to sell through that whole process. And I read this book, it’s called going for the no. That book changed my life because basically it’s a book I’m selling I can’t remember who it’s by but we’ll put it in the show notes for sure Um, yeah, I might have it here, [00:22:00] but okay, I’ll put it in the show notes But it’s called going for the know and it’s a short read But basically it’s all about if you want to be the best salesperson you have to get really good at hearing no Because the more no’s you’re willing to hear, the more yes’s you’re going to hear.

Jamie Berman: So what if instead of only celebrating the yes’s, what if you start celebrating the no’s because it means you’re putting yourself out there and you keep showing up and within every no there’s going to be a yes. And that’s just how sales works. Yeah. Yeah. Right. When we hold it from that context, it’s a game changer.

Jamie Berman: And once I started realizing that, then it was like, okay, I’m going to celebrate. It’s kind of like how I practice manifestation now where I celebrate failure because I know that if I’m failing at something, it’s more valuable than winning. I’m learning something huge. So I’m not afraid of failing anymore.

Jamie Berman: It’s like, I’m willing, the more willing you are to fail. the more willing you are to succeed. It’s that [00:23:00] 50 50 balance. And it’s going to be the same with sales calls. And of course there’s always opportunities to say, Hmm, what could I do that could prevent maybe if I’m having a bunch of the same objections, what could I maybe do that would help this?

Jamie Berman: Right? Like I had a bunch of, of, um, objections around the price and I realized, well, they don’t know what the price is in advance. So what if I just. created a form ahead of time and asked them if they were willing to invest this much. Let them know what the price is ahead of time. And guess what? I got a lot less no’s because the people who weren’t aligned with that price just didn’t sign up anymore.

Vanessa: Yeah. Yeah. It’s a, uh, you know, it’s, it’s putting the information out there. Yeah, I get it. I, I, yeah, thank you. I really, yeah, that’s kind of my, I think, and it’s, and I keep telling myself it’s, and it’s true that, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s. Each and every person I speak to is an incredibly beautiful soul, and they’re just finding someone [00:24:00] to connect with.

Vanessa: And if it’s not that instant connection, then of course they have everything to say. To say no, um, but still it just really, you know, all that sort of doubt comes up in me because it’s, I guess, not having been nurtured at a young age. You just, you just kind of like get thrown into the real world. 

Jamie Berman: Of course, absolutely.

Jamie Berman: But the beautiful thing about it is that it’s never too late to nurture that part. You can completely heal it now and do that work and just, it’s really just about learning to talk back to that little part that’s scared. That we normally want to resist or get upset about or listen to. Instead, it’s like learning to nurture and love that part.

Jamie Berman: And before you know it, it’s not probably going to trigger you anymore. And you may find that just by doing this inner work, you may just end up manifesting more clients that you just instantly have a connection to. Yeah, 

Vanessa: and um, yeah, I just [00:25:00] feel like, and it’s also a challenge for me, so thank you, Jamie, that um, that I, I need to learn this right now, because then I will be able to help the same.

Vanessa: The clients who are going through the same stuff, um, you know, the same business, but in life in general, um, yeah, I can’t coach them because I have no life experience. 

Jamie Berman: It’s the best part about being your coach. Like the more we do our own work. The more we can help our clients. So it really, it just goes hand in hand.

Jamie Berman: It’s so good. And I love that perspective from you. It’s so positive. And I think it’s going to be a game changer with your business. And the last thing I would mention also is it could be helpful to also start rewriting that story about money. Cause I know we didn’t touch on that as much. It kind of, it sounds like it was linked to the rejection piece.

Jamie Berman: But also doing some compassionate self forgiveness around the misbelief that you took on about money, [00:26:00] right? Of like, oh, anytime I make it, it’s gonna go away. Like, that was your experience, but it doesn’t have to be your experience now. So, like, letting go of the misbelief that that’s how it has to be.

Jamie Berman: It’s almost like rewriting that story of, yeah, that was my past. That’s how it was. And I’m creating a new reality where I can make money, and I can keep money, and I can nurture money, and it can be awesome. 

Vanessa: Yep. Yep, exactly. Yeah. And I can decide what I want to do with my money. If 

Jamie Berman: you can, and you can, yes!

Jamie Berman: Yes, it’s your time to play. It’s your time to do what you weren’t able to do as a teenager. And you get to do that with money and you get to do that in your life now that you’ve let go of like overworking and burnout. It’s like you get to step into what you didn’t get when you were younger. So it’s a beautiful thing.

Jamie Berman: Oh, 

Vanessa: thank you so much, Jamie. You 

Jamie Berman: got it. Thanks for being on here, Vanessa. I’m so excited for you and you’ll have to let me know [00:27:00] how it goes as you do this work. I want an update. Great. Okay. Thank 

Vanessa: you, Jamie. Really appreciate your time and 

Jamie Berman: the opportunity. Absolutely. All right. Have a good one. Thank you.